Poellnitz

[Paul Theroff]

Can anyone help me with the descendants of Ernst Freiherr von Poellnitz and
his wife, Hon. Isabella Forbes, whom he married in 1839?

Thanks!


paul theroff

[bistritz]

Post by Paul Theroff
Can anyone help me with the descendants of Ernst Freiherr von Poellnitz and
his wife, Hon. Isabella Forbes, whom he married in 1839?
Thanks!

According to the Baronial Gotha of 1876, they had five daughters:

1. Wanda * 6 Jun1840 XS 24 Feb 1864 John Sholto Douglass, Esq., of
Tilquihillie. He + 15 Sep 1874.

2. Mary * 24 Jun 1844

3. Amalie * 17 Aug 1847

4. Adele * 15 May 1852 X Bregenz 17 Feb 1874 Augustus Henry Fitz-Gibbon
of Ryde, Isle of Wight

5. Elisabeth * 8 Apr 1854

Gilbert von Studnitz

[Paul Theroff]

Thanks!

Post by bistritz

Post by Paul Theroff
Can anyone help me with the descendants of Ernst Freiherr von Poellnitz and
his wife, Hon. Isabella Forbes, whom he married in 1839?
Thanks!

1. Wanda * 6 Jun1840 XS 24 Feb 1864 John Sholto Douglass, Esq., of
Tilquihillie. He + 15 Sep 1874.
2. Mary * 24 Jun 1844
3. Amalie * 17 Aug 1847
4. Adele * 15 May 1852 X Bregenz 17 Feb 1874 Augustus Henry Fitz-Gibbon
of Ryde, Isle of Wight
5. Elisabeth * 8 Apr 1854
Gilbert von Studnitz

[m***@btinternet.com]

Post by bistritz

Post by Paul Theroff
Can anyone help me with the descendants of Ernst Freiherr von Poellnitz and
his wife, Hon. Isabella Forbes, whom he married in 1839?
Thanks!

1. Wanda * 6 Jun1840 XS 24 Feb 1864 John Sholto Douglass, Esq., of
Tilquihillie. He + 15 Sep 1874.

See this site for some further details:

http://www.vorarlberg.at/VLB/vlbveranstaltungen/2000/douglas.htm

MA-R

[Ted Rosvall]

Accodring to the Freiherrliche Häuser 1912, this couple ahd two daughters:
1. Adele Mary Elisabeth *Riedenburg 1852 15.May. married Bregenz 1874 to
Augustus Fitz Gibbon [Bregenz]
2. Elisabeth (Ella) Antonie Theodora *Lautrach 1854 8 April, married Bregenz
1887 20 August to Charles Healey, British Colonel [The Firs, Reckmansworth]

Ted Rosvall

Post by Paul Theroff
Can anyone help me with the descendants of Ernst Freiherr von Poellnitz
and his wife, Hon. Isabella Forbes, whom he married in 1839?
Thanks!
paul theroff

[Paul Theroff]

Thanks!

Post by Ted Rosvall
1. Adele Mary Elisabeth *Riedenburg 1852 15.May. married Bregenz 1874 to
Augustus Fitz Gibbon [Bregenz]
2. Elisabeth (Ella) Antonie Theodora *Lautrach 1854 8 April, married
Bregenz 1887 20 August to Charles Healey, British Colonel [The Firs,
Reckmansworth]
Ted Rosvall

Post by Paul Theroff
Can anyone help me with the descendants of Ernst Freiherr von Poellnitz
and his wife, Hon. Isabella Forbes, whom he married in 1839?
Thanks!
paul theroff

[m***@btinternet.com]

Post by Ted Rosvall
1. Adele Mary Elisabeth *Riedenburg 1852 15.May. married Bregenz 1874 to
Augustus Fitz Gibbon [Bregenz]
2. Elisabeth (Ella) Antonie Theodora *Lautrach 1854 8 April, married Bregenz
1887 20 August to Charles Healey, British Colonel [The Firs, Reckmansworth]

Kelly's Handbook, 1904:

Lt-Col Charles Healey, CMG (1900), s of Charles Frederick Healey of
Watford, Herts; b 1856; m 1887 Baroness Ella von Poellnitz, youngest
dau of Baron Ernst von Poellnitz by The Hon. Isabella, 5th dau of the
17th Baron Forbes; served in South African War 1900; lt-col, 3 battn
(mil), South Wales Borderers from 1898; of The Firs, Croxley Green,
Rickmansworth.

It would appear that this couple was childless.

Michael Andrews-Reading

[Chris Pitt Lewis]

Post by Ted Rosvall
1. Adele Mary Elisabeth *Riedenburg 1852 15.May. married Bregenz 1874 to
Augustus Fitz Gibbon [Bregenz]
2. Elisabeth (Ella) Antonie Theodora *Lautrach 1854 8 April, married Bregenz
1887 20 August to Charles Healey, British Colonel [The Firs, Reckmansworth]
Ted Rosvall

Post by Paul Theroff
Can anyone help me with the descendants of Ernst Freiherr von Poellnitz
and his wife, Hon. Isabella Forbes, whom he married in 1839?
Thanks!
paul theroff

This turns out to be a surprisingly interesting family.

The 1898 edition of the Freiherrliches Taschenbuch adds a second husband
for Vanda Marie (note different spelling) b Coburg 6 jun 1840. She m.
Munich 23 nov 1879 Jakob Jehly, an artist, who d. Bludenz 27 mar 1897.
Google produces 194 hits for his name.

These will lead you, among other things, to two of her children: the
writers Norman Douglas (1868-1952) by her first marriage and Grete
Gulbransson (1882-1934) by her second. There is also information about
Grete's son Olaf Andreas Gulbransson (1916-1961) a church architect.

Norman Douglas was married to his cousin Elizabeth dau of Augustus
Fitzgibbon and Adele v Poellnitz.

Mary and Amalie are not listed in 1898 so had presumably died.

The 1928 edition has Adele still alive, but Ella Healey d London 30 dec
1920, survived by her husband.

Col. Charles Healey was still alive at the time of the 1939 edition of
Kelly's Handbook. To the details given by Michael Andrews-Reading it
adds that he and Ella had 2 sons and 1 daughter. His address was then 24
Sussex Mansions, Old Brompton Road, SW7. He was educated at Malvern. He
was lt col (hon col 1900) 3 battn (mil) S Wales Borderers 1898-1904,
maj. R Defence C 1914-18, placed on retired list 1918.

There is a Col Charles Healey 1856-1939 in Vol 3 of Who Was Who (to
which I don't have immediate access) - no doubt this is him.

The Douglases of Tilquhillie are in Burke's Landed Gentry 1937. They are
not in the recent 19th edition; I do not know if they are in the
intervening editions. In 1937 we have the following:

John Sholto Douglas 15th of Tilquhillie b 18 nov 1838 d sep 1874
m. 24 feb 1864 Vanda v Poellnitz
1. John William Edward James Douglas 16th of Tilquhillie JP b 16 feb
1865 educ Uppingham. Of Ladyhill, Bieldside Co Aberdeen
m. 17 nov 1901 Olga Edith dau of August Julius 2nd baron de Reuter
1.1 John Sholto Douglas 17th of Tilquhillie "which his father
propelled to him in 1925" b 1 mar 1904 Educ Wadham College Oxford. Lt
Royal Scots (1926).
1.2 Madeleine Clemence Ogilvie Douglas b 21 mar 1907
1.3 Phoebe Mary Douglas b 28 mar 1917
2. Robert Ernest Douglas b 11 may 1867 d 5 dec 1867
3. George Norman Douglas b 8 dec 1868 Educ Uppingham 3rd Sec in
Diplomatic Service
m. 1898 Elsa dau of Augustus FitzGibbon of Mount Shannon Co Limerick,
"and had issue"
4. Mary Douglas b 21 jan 1871 d 3 jun 1903
m. 1894 E P Fairbairn of Ystrad House, Knighton, Radnorshire, "leaving
issue" [details in Burke's Peerage under Fairbairn Bt]

[Don Aitken]

[rearranged]

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 12:50:02 +0000, Chris Pitt Lewis

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis

Post by Ted Rosvall

Post by Paul Theroff
Can anyone help me with the descendants of Ernst Freiherr von Poellnitz
and his wife, Hon. Isabella Forbes, whom he married in 1839?

1. Adele Mary Elisabeth *Riedenburg 1852 15.May. married Bregenz 1874 to
Augustus Fitz Gibbon [Bregenz]
2. Elisabeth (Ella) Antonie Theodora *Lautrach 1854 8 April, married Bregenz
1887 20 August to Charles Healey, British Colonel [The Firs, Reckmansworth]

This turns out to be a surprisingly interesting family.
The 1898 edition of the Freiherrliches Taschenbuch adds a second husband
for Vanda Marie (note different spelling) b Coburg 6 jun 1840. She m.
Munich 23 nov 1879 Jakob Jehly, an artist, who d. Bludenz 27 mar 1897.
Google produces 194 hits for his name.
These will lead you, among other things, to two of her children: the
writers Norman Douglas (1868-1952) by her first marriage and Grete
Gulbransson (1882-1934) by her second. There is also information about
Grete's son Olaf Andreas Gulbransson (1916-1961) a church architect.
Norman Douglas was married to his cousin Elizabeth dau of Augustus
Fitzgibbon and Adele v Poellnitz.
Mary and Amalie are not listed in 1898 so had presumably died.
The 1928 edition has Adele still alive, but Ella Healey d London 30 dec
1920, survived by her husband.
Col. Charles Healey was still alive at the time of the 1939 edition of
Kelly's Handbook. To the details given by Michael Andrews-Reading it
adds that he and Ella had 2 sons and 1 daughter. His address was then 24
Sussex Mansions, Old Brompton Road, SW7. He was educated at Malvern. He
was lt col (hon col 1900) 3 battn (mil) S Wales Borderers 1898-1904,
maj. R Defence C 1914-18, placed on retired list 1918.
There is a Col Charles Healey 1856-1939 in Vol 3 of Who Was Who (to
which I don't have immediate access) - no doubt this is him.
The Douglases of Tilquhillie are in Burke's Landed Gentry 1937. They are
not in the recent 19th edition; I do not know if they are in the
John Sholto Douglas 15th of Tilquhillie b 18 nov 1838 d sep 1874
m. 24 feb 1864 Vanda v Poellnitz
1. John William Edward James Douglas 16th of Tilquhillie JP b 16 feb
1865 educ Uppingham. Of Ladyhill, Bieldside Co Aberdeen
m. 17 nov 1901 Olga Edith dau of August Julius 2nd baron de Reuter
1.1 John Sholto Douglas 17th of Tilquhillie "which his father
propelled to him in 1925" b 1 mar 1904 Educ Wadham College Oxford. Lt
Royal Scots (1926).
1.2 Madeleine Clemence Ogilvie Douglas b 21 mar 1907
1.3 Phoebe Mary Douglas b 28 mar 1917
2. Robert Ernest Douglas b 11 may 1867 d 5 dec 1867
3. George Norman Douglas b 8 dec 1868 Educ Uppingham 3rd Sec in
Diplomatic Service
m. 1898 Elsa dau of Augustus FitzGibbon of Mount Shannon Co Limerick,
"and had issue"
4. Mary Douglas b 21 jan 1871 d 3 jun 1903
m. 1894 E P Fairbairn of Ystrad House, Knighton, Radnorshire, "leaving
issue" [details in Burke's Peerage under Fairbairn Bt]

The founder of this family is presumably that David Douglas of
Tilquhillie who is recorded as fl.1494. He was the second son of Sir
Henry Douglas of Lochleven, +1476, progenitor of the Earls of Morton
and of Buchan.

[bistritz]

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis
Mary and Amalie are not listed in 1898 so had presumably died.

While in the 1892 Baronial Gotha Mary is already gone, for Amalie it
states married 3 Jun 1884 in Bregenz to James Hugh Moore Garrett of
Wood Lawn in Ireland.

G. von Studnitz

[Dag T. Hoelseth]

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis

Post by Ted Rosvall
1. Adele Mary Elisabeth *Riedenburg 1852 15.May. married Bregenz 1874 to
Augustus Fitz Gibbon [Bregenz]
2. Elisabeth (Ella) Antonie Theodora *Lautrach 1854 8 April, married Bregenz
1887 20 August to Charles Healey, British Colonel [The Firs,

Reckmansworth]

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis

Post by Ted Rosvall
Ted Rosvall

Post by Paul Theroff
Can anyone help me with the descendants of Ernst Freiherr von Poellnitz
and his wife, Hon. Isabella Forbes, whom he married in 1839?
Thanks!
paul theroff

This turns out to be a surprisingly interesting family.
The 1898 edition of the Freiherrliches Taschenbuch adds a second husband
for Vanda Marie (note different spelling) b Coburg 6 jun 1840. She m.
Munich 23 nov 1879 Jakob Jehly, an artist, who d. Bludenz 27 mar 1897.
Google produces 194 hits for his name.
These will lead you, among other things, to two of her children: the
writers Norman Douglas (1868-1952) by her first marriage and Grete
Gulbransson (1882-1934) by her second.

I think Grete is a shortened form of Margareta, cf. Hvem er hvem? 1912, p.
91, where her name is listed as Margareta Douglas. Olaf Gulbransson, b.
Kristiania [Oslo] 26 May 1873, was the son of Edvard Gulbrandsen and Olava
Caspersen (father and son seem to have chosen a different spelling of the
family name which originally was just a patronym). Olaf and Margareta seem
to have been divorced, as Olaf in Hvem er hvem? 1955, p. 224, was listed as
being married for the third time to Dagny Bjørnson, b. 11 February 1901,
daughter of Einar Bjørnson and Elisabeth Langen. Olaf Gulbransson died in
1958, cf. http://www.avistegnerne.no/avistegnerne/a_gulbranson.html He had
settled in Tegernsee, Bavaria and had become a German citizen, cf.
http://www.nordic-literature.org/2004/nordisk/artikler/108.htm

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis
There is also information about
Grete's son Olaf Andreas Gulbransson (1916-1961) a church architect.

[...]

[Chris Pitt Lewis]

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis
The 1898 edition of the Freiherrliches Taschenbuch adds a second
husband for Vanda Marie (note different spelling) b Coburg 6 jun 1840.
She m. Munich 23 nov 1879 Jakob Jehly, an artist, who d. Bludenz 27 mar
1897. Google produces 194 hits for his name.
These will lead you, among other things, to two of her children: the
writers Norman Douglas (1868-1952) by her first marriage and Grete
Gulbransson (1882-1934) by her second. There is also information about
Grete's son Olaf Andreas Gulbransson (1916-1961) a church architect.
Norman Douglas was married to his cousin Elizabeth dau of Augustus
Fitzgibbon and Adele v Poellnitz.

Augustus Henry FitzGibbon (1850-1918) turns out to belong to the male
line of the Viscounts Dillon. His father Gerald Normanby Dillon changed
his name to FitzGibbon by Royal licence 8 nov 1873, his wife Lady Louisa
FitzGibbon being a coheiress of the last Earl of Clare. See Burkes
Peerage under Dillon and FA Crisp, Visitation of Ireland, Vol 4 p. 93-94
(1904) for details of his family.

(George) Norman Douglas was married to his cousin Elizabeth Louisa
Theobaldina FitzGibbon only from 1898-1904. This was long enough for
there to be two children of the marriage, but his main sexual
preferences appear to have lain in a different direction. See for
example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Douglas

[m***@btinternet.com]

Post by Chris Pitt Lewis
The Douglases of Tilquhillie are in Burke's Landed Gentry 1937. They are
not in the recent 19th edition; I do not know if they are in the
John Sholto Douglas 15th of Tilquhillie b 18 nov 1838 d sep 1874
m. 24 feb 1864 Vanda v Poellnitz
1. John William Edward James Douglas 16th of Tilquhillie JP b 16 feb
1865 educ Uppingham. Of Ladyhill, Bieldside Co Aberdeen
m. 17 nov 1901 Olga Edith dau of August Julius 2nd baron de Reuter
1.1 John Sholto Douglas 17th of Tilquhillie "which his father
propelled to him in 1925" b 1 mar 1904 Educ Wadham College Oxford. Lt
Royal Scots (1926).
1.2 Madeleine Clemence Ogilvie Douglas b 21 mar 1907
1.3 Phoebe Mary Douglas b 28 mar 1917
2. Robert Ernest Douglas b 11 may 1867 d 5 dec 1867
3. George Norman Douglas b 8 dec 1868 Educ Uppingham 3rd Sec in
Diplomatic Service
m. 1898 Elsa dau of Augustus FitzGibbon of Mount Shannon Co Limerick,
"and had issue"
4. Mary Douglas b 21 jan 1871 d 3 jun 1903
m. 1894 E P Fairbairn of Ystrad House, Knighton, Radnorshire, "leaving
issue" [details in Burke's Peerage under Fairbairn Bt]

Adding to Chris' excellent work:

According to Burke's, Mary married 23 May 1894 as his first wife Edward
Percy Fairbairn, born 7 June 1866, died 15 September 1931. They had
issue:

(a) William Douglas Fairbairn, born 24 February 1895; Lt-Cdr, Royal
Navy; died 6 May 1932

(b) Vanda Marr Fairbairn, born 3 October 1896; died 4 May 1934; she
married 1stly 2 June 1919 Flag-Lt F. C. Bottomley, RN (died 1921) and
2ndly 1 March 1924 Cdr F. J. Wylie, RN. She is said to have left
issue.

MA-R

[Paul Theroff]

Thanks, all, for all the helpful information. From what all has been posted
here and from a couple other sources, this is what I have on the
Poellnitz/Forbes descendants so far:



Hon. Isabella Drummond Forbes, d.9 Jan 1897; m.28 Aug 1839 Ernst Frhr
v.Poellnitz
1.Wanda Frn v.Poellnitz (Coburg 6 Jun 1840-1902); m.1st 24 Feb 1864 John
Sholto Douglas, of Tilquihillie (18 Nov 1838-15 Sep 1874); m.2nd Munich 23
Nov 1879 Jakob Jehly (d.Bludenz 27 Mar 1897)
1.1.John William Edward James Douglas, of Tilquhillie (16 Feb 1865- );
m.17 Nov 1901 Olga Edith de Reuter
1.1.1.John Sholto Douglas, of Tilquhillie (1 Mar 1904- )
1.1.2.Madeleine Clemence Ogilvie Douglas (21 Mar 1907- )
1.1.3.Phoebe Mary Douglas (28 Mar 1917- )
1.2.Robert Ernest Douglas (11 May 1867-5 Dec 1867)
1.3.George Norman Douglas (8 Dec 1868-9 Feb 1952); m.1898 (div 1904)
Elizabeth Louisa Theobaldina FitzGibbon --> issue, 2 children
1.4.Mary Douglas (21 Jan 1871-3 Jun 1903); m.23 May 1894 Edward Percy
Fairbairn (7 Jun 1866-15 Sep 1931)
1.4.1.William Douglas Fairbairn (24 Feb 1895-6 May 1932)
1.4.2.Vanda Marr Fairbairn (3 Oct 1896-4 May 1934); m.1st 2 Jun 1919 F C
Bottomley (d.1921); m.2nd 1 Mar 1924 F J Wylie ?
1.5.Margarete Jehly (Bludenz 31 Jul 1882-Munich 26 Mar 1934); m.14 Aug 1906
Olaf Gulbransson (Kristiania 26 May 1873-18 Sep 1958)
1.5.1.Olaf Andreas Gulbransson (Munich 23 Jan 1916-k.in auto accident 18 Jul
1961)
2.Mary Frn v.Poellnitz (24 Jun 1844- )
3.Amalie Frn v.Poellnitz (17 Aug 1847-24 Oct 1891); m.Bregenz 3 Jun 1884
James Hugh Moore Garrett (1842- )
4.Adele Mary Elisabeth Frn v.Poellnitz (Riedenburg 15 May 1852-31 May 1928);
m.Bregenz 17 Feb 1874 Augustus Henry Dillon [Fitzgibbon] (6 Dec 1850-26 Jul
1918)
4.1.Gerald Ernest George FitzGibbon, b.4 Feb 1883, d.8 Jan 1929; m.1st 20
Aug 1908 (div 1912) Mary Monica Marshall-Hole; m.2d Mrs.Helène Forde
4.1.1.Doreen Adele Monica Clare FitzGibbon, b.24 Dec 1910; m.1st 14 Jan 1928
(div 1937) James Edward Stuart-Lyon; m.2d 1938 Francis Prideaux Allbutt
(d.26 Dec 1965); m.3d 12 Jun 1968 her first husband
4.1.1.1.James Alastair Garry Stuart-Lyon, took name Allbutt 1951, b.12 Dec
1934, m.2 Jan 1960 Gillian Mary Dawes
4.1.1.1.1.Steven Alastair Allbutt, b. 9 Sep 1960
4.1.1.1.2.James Alexander Allbutt, b.1962
4.1.1.1.3.Jonathan Michael Allbutt, b.1964
4.1.1.1.4.Angus Edward Allbutt, b.13 Sep 1965
4.1.2.Elizabeth Rosemary FitzGibbon, b.29 Nov 1912; m.5 May 1934 Henry
Brockholst Livingston (d.4 Jun 1968)
4.1.2.1.Nicholas Henry Livingston, b.7 Jun 1942; m.1968 Ana Maria Oneto
4.1.2.1.1.Barnaby Livingston, b.1973
4.1.2.1.2.Emma Sophie Livingston, b.1976
4.1.3.Diana Clare FitzGibbon (16 Jul 1924-1993); m.10 Mar 1952 Derek Harry
Johnson (d.1977)
4.1.3.1.Gerald Harry Johnson, b.5 Dec 1952; m.1st 1980 (div 1985) Jasmine
Wild; m.2d 1987 (div 1996) Claire Rooney
4.1.3.1.1.Harry Francis FitzGibbon Johnson, b.1989
4.1.3.2.Mary Clare Hélène Johnson, b.28 Feb 1958; m.1st 1985 (div 1989)
Robin Vetch; m.2d 1990 Robert Rodwell (d.21 Mar 2000)
4.1.3.2.1.Annabel Susannah Clare Vetch, b.10 Dec 1987
4.2.Elizabeth Louisa Theobaldina FitzGibbon (1876-11 Sep 1916); m.1898 (div
1904) George Norman Douglas (d.9 Feb 1952) issue, 2 children
4.3.Violet FitzGibbon (1879-5 Apr 1960); m.14 Sep 1905 James Louis Fairholme
(26 Oct 1862-Dec 1944)
4.3.1.Walter Gerald George Fairholme (5 Aug 1906-10 Nov 1988); m.18 Oct 1935
Phyllis Ryan (d.29 Nov 1987)
4.3.1.1.Gerald Frederick William Fairholme, b.1 Sep 1939; m.21 Apr 1962
Laura Denise Carle
4.3.1.1.1.Stephen James Fairholme, b.5 May 1968
4.3.1.1.2.Edward John Fairholme, b.27 Jan 1970
4.3.1.1.3.Marie-Laure Cynthia Anne Fairholme (4 Mar 1963-19 Feb 1982)
4.3.1.1.4.Claire Isabel Geraldine Fairholme, b.10 Jul 1966
5.Elisabeth Antonie Theodora Frn v.Poellnitz (Lautrach 8 Apr 1854-30 Dec
1920); m.Bregenz 20 Aug 1887 Charles Healey (1856- )

[e***@yahoo.fr]

Paul Theroff a écrit :

Bludenz, Bregenz, Riedenburg are places in the Land of Vorarlberg,
Austria

[e***@yahoo.fr]

Paul Theroff a écrit :

Bludenz, Bregenz, Riedenburg are places in the Land of Vorarlberg,
Austria