Russian titles granted after the fall of the monarchy

[Matt Lavengood]

I know that the Titular Emperors and Empress of Russia have granted
titles of nobility to some morganauts. I know that these titles have
been granted:

Vladimir:
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Koutouzova to Countess Marina
Golenistcheva-Koutouzova
Countess Brassova to Natalja Sergejevna Cheremetevskaya
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Brassova to Countess Natalja Sergejevna
Brassova
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Ilyinskaya to Audrey Emery
Cyril:
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Pavlovskaya to Lady Mary Lygon
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Emilia de Gosztónyi
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Knust to Valli Knust
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Nadine McDougall
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Sheila Chisholm

My questions are:

Have the claimants granted titles to anyone but morganatic marriage
subjects?

and has the current claimant, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, given
any titles in her capacity as Empress?

Thanks!

[W***@gmail.com]

Post by Matt Lavengood
I know that the Titular Emperors and Empress of Russia have granted
titles of nobility to some morganauts. I know that these titles have
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Koutouzova to Countess Marina
Golenistcheva-Koutouzova
Countess Brassova to Natalja Sergejevna Cheremetevskaya
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Brassova to Countess Natalja Sergejevna
Brassova
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Ilyinskaya to Audrey Emery
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Pavlovskaya to Lady Mary Lygon
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Emilia de Gosztónyi
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Knust to Valli Knust
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Nadine McDougall
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Sheila Chisholm

Vladimir also gave a title to his step-daughter, Helen Kirby.

Post by Matt Lavengood
Have the claimants granted titles to anyone but morganatic marriage
subjects?
and has the current claimant, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, given
any titles in her capacity as Empress?
Thanks!

[r***@mindspring.com]

what was the title given to her?

[Dimitry]

Countess Dvinskaya (of Dvina, the river).
---
Dimitry Macedonsky

[Matt Lavengood]

Post by Dimitry
Countess Dvinskaya (of Dvina, the river).
---
Dimitry Macedonsky

Is Helen married? If so, I'm guessing she would revert to a plain "Mrs
Helen <husbandsurname>" title, unless she were to marry another member
of the nobility.

Another question: What title do morganatic wives of Princes and Grand
Dukes use if they are not given another one? "Mrs Mary Romanova"? Do
they keep their maiden title?

[Dimitry]

Post by Matt Lavengood
What title do morganatic wives of Princes and Grand
Dukes use if they are not given another one? "Mrs
Mary Romanova"? Do they keep their maiden title?

Under Imperial law (if the marriage was approved and so on) they shoud
use titles granted to them.

Really they use false titles 'princess Romanova' like their husbands
use 'prince Romanov'. Some even use styles of Highness ('prince
Nicholas Romanovich Romanov' even use 'Imperial Highness').

[Matt Lavengood]

Post by Dimitry

Post by Matt Lavengood
What title do morganatic wives of Princes and Grand
Dukes use if they are not given another one? "Mrs
Mary Romanova"? Do they keep their maiden title?

Under Imperial law (if the marriage was approved and so on) they shoud
use titles granted to them.

And if they are granted no titles?

[Lisa Davidson]

Post by Matt Lavengood

Post by Dimitry

Post by Matt Lavengood
What title do morganatic wives of Princes and Grand
Dukes use if they are not given another one? "Mrs
Mary Romanova"? Do they keep their maiden title?

Under Imperial law (if the marriage was approved and so on) they shoud
use titles granted to them.

And if they are granted no titles?

Many of the Romanovs in exile are actually citizens of democracies. For
example, the Ilyinsky family are all US citizens AFAIK, and use both the
surname Ilyinsky and socially, some use Prince(ss) Romanovsky-Ilyinsky. The
family of Andrei Andreievich, son of Prince Andrei Alexandrovich, uses the
surname "Romanoff" and are also US citizens.

[Dimitry]

Post by Matt Lavengood
And if they are granted no titles?

It is impossible.

Please note also that, strictly speaking, there is no such thing as
"House of Romanov", royals does not have surnames. Thus their
morganatic or bastard issue have not last name to use.

[Matt Lavengood]

Post by Dimitry

Post by Matt Lavengood
And if they are granted no titles?

It is impossible.

What about, for instance, Countess Prascovia Cheremeteva? She was given
no additional titles after her marriage to Prince Roman.

Post by Dimitry
Please note also that, strictly speaking, there is no such thing as
"House of Romanov", royals does not have surnames. Thus their
morganatic or bastard issue have not last name to use.

[a***@gmail.com]

I think that marriage wasn't approved, so the bride keeps her maiden
name and their children take that name.

[Lisa Davidson]

Post by Dimitry

Post by Matt Lavengood
And if they are granted no titles?

It is impossible.
Please note also that, strictly speaking, there is no such thing as
"House of Romanov", royals does not have surnames. Thus their
morganatic or bastard issue have not last name to use.

Dimitry - from a monarchist perspective, you are correct that royals do
not have names to give. However, my post was regarding names actually in
use - a practical perspective, as it were. An the facts are these - that
there are Romanov descendants living here in the US who use "Romanoff"
as a surname, which they are welcome to do under US law, regardless of
what is acceptable from a monarchist perspective.

[r***@mindspring.com]

what was the title given to her?

[p***@hotmail.com]

Grand Duchess Maria does grant titles from time to time. Her father
Vladimir also granted titles to those who served him loyaly for many
years.

DAP

[n***@gmail.com]

Post by Matt Lavengood
I know that the Titular Emperors and Empress of Russia have granted
titles of nobility to some morganauts. I know that these titles have
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Koutouzova to Countess Marina
Golenistcheva-Koutouzova
Countess Brassova to Natalja Sergejevna Cheremetevskaya
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Brassova to Countess Natalja Sergejevna
Brassova
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Ilyinskaya to Audrey Emery
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Pavlovskaya to Lady Mary Lygon
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Emilia de Gosztónyi
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Knust to Valli Knust
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Nadine McDougall
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Sheila Chisholm
Have the claimants granted titles to anyone but morganatic marriage
subjects?
and has the current claimant, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, given
any titles in her capacity as Empress?
Thanks!

Well, Grand Duke Vladimir Granted the title of Countess Dvinsky to his stepdaughter, Helen Kirby, Grand Duchess Leonida's daughter from her her first marriage to Mr. Kirby. I do not think she uses it, and I believe goes by Kirby de Bagration-Moukhransky which is the correct form of her last name in Spain, where she grew up. Her mother's Royal last name is more advantageous to her, certainly, than a post-revolution creation of a title.

[n***@gmail.com]

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Matt Lavengood
I know that the Titular Emperors and Empress of Russia have granted
titles of nobility to some morganauts. I know that these titles have
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Koutouzova to Countess Marina
Golenistcheva-Koutouzova
Countess Brassova to Natalja Sergejevna Cheremetevskaya
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Brassova to Countess Natalja Sergejevna
Brassova
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Ilyinskaya to Audrey Emery
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Pavlovskaya to Lady Mary Lygon
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Emilia de Gosztónyi
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Knust to Valli Knust
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Nadine McDougall
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Sheila Chisholm
Have the claimants granted titles to anyone but morganatic marriage
subjects?
and has the current claimant, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, given
any titles in her capacity as Empress?
Thanks!

Well, Grand Duke Vladimir Granted the title of Countess Dvinsky to his stepdaughter, Helen Kirby, Grand Duchess Leonida's daughter from her her first marriage to Mr. Kirby. I do not think she uses it, and I believe goes by Kirby de Bagration-Moukhransky which is the correct form of her last name in Spain, where she grew up. Her mother's Royal last name is more advantageous to her, certainly, than a post-revolution creation of a title.

Whoops! Had no idea this thread was almost 10 years old. Nice to know everyone in the thread though!

[e***@yahoo.fr]

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by n***@gmail.com

Post by Matt Lavengood
I know that the Titular Emperors and Empress of Russia have granted
titles of nobility to some morganauts. I know that these titles have
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Koutouzova to Countess Marina
Golenistcheva-Koutouzova
Countess Brassova to Natalja Sergejevna Cheremetevskaya
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Brassova to Countess Natalja Sergejevna
Brassova
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Ilyinskaya to Audrey Emery
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Pavlovskaya to Lady Mary Lygon
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Emilia de Gosztónyi
HSH Princess Romanovskaya-Knust to Valli Knust
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Nadine McDougall
HSH Princess Romanovskaya to Sheila Chisholm
Have the claimants granted titles to anyone but morganatic marriage
subjects?
and has the current claimant, Grand Duchess Maria Vladimirovna, given
any titles in her capacity as Empress?
Thanks!

Well, Grand Duke Vladimir Granted the title of Countess Dvinsky to his stepdaughter, Helen Kirby, Grand Duchess Leonida's daughter from her her first marriage to Mr. Kirby. I do not think she uses it, and I believe goes by Kirby de Bagration-Moukhransky which is the correct form of her last name in Spain, where she grew up. Her mother's Royal last name is more advantageous to her, certainly, than a post-revolution creation of a title.

Whoops! Had no idea this thread was almost 10 years old. Nice to know everyone in the thread though!

Every one?