Discussion:
natural children of Ernst I. and Ernst II., Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha
(too old to reply)
Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
2004-06-27 09:57:45 UTC
Permalink
I am looking for information on the natural sons/daugthers of
the Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Ernst I and Ernst II.
It is often mentioned that they had several natural children. I managed to
find out about two of Ernst I. but none of Ernst II.
Is anybody able to help me out?
Henry Soszynski
2004-06-28 09:04:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
I am looking for information on the natural sons/daugthers of
the Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Ernst I and Ernst II.
It is often mentioned that they had several natural children. I managed to
find out about two of Ernst I. but none of Ernst II.
Is anybody able to help me out?
Ernst I:
by Pauline Adelaide Panam bc1793-died aft 1823, a son, Ernst, born
March 1809.
by Sophia Reine Fermepin de Marteaux 1799-1885, a daughter, Bertha
Ernestine von Schauenstein 1817-1896
by Margaret von Braun, two sons, Freiherr Ernst Albert von Bruneck
living 1838 and Freiherr Robert Ferdinand von Bruneck living 1856.

As for Ernst II, he was credited with so many children, that anyone
introduced with the name of Ernst was greeted with a knowing smile. I
suspect they fall in the same category as Edward VII's children.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Henry
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Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
2004-06-29 16:03:22 UTC
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Post by Henry Soszynski
Post by Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
I am looking for information on the natural sons/daugthers of
the Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Ernst I and Ernst II.
It is often mentioned that they had several natural children. I managed to
find out about two of Ernst I. but none of Ernst II.
Is anybody able to help me out?
by Pauline Adelaide Panam bc1793-died aft 1823, a son, Ernst, born
March 1809.
by Sophia Reine Fermepin de Marteaux 1799-1885, a daughter, Bertha
Ernestine von Schauenstein 1817-1896
by Margaret von Braun, two sons, Freiherr Ernst Albert von Bruneck
living 1838 and Freiherr Robert Ferdinand von Bruneck living 1856.
As for Ernst II, he was credited with so many children, that anyone
introduced with the name of Ernst was greeted with a knowing smile. I
suspect they fall in the same category as Edward VII's children.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Henry
-----------------------------------------------------------
INDIA ROYALTY MAILING LIST
http://www.uq.net.au/~zzhsoszy/ips/mailing_list.html
http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/IND/INDIA-ROYALTY.html
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thanks very much Henry
the first two I know but the von Brunecks are new to me
i heart about the remark with regards to Ernst II. ...
with my renewed thanks best regards from Brussels
k
Samuel Dotson
2004-06-29 11:41:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
I am looking for information on the natural sons/daugthers of
the Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Ernst I and Ernst II.
It is often mentioned that they had several natural children. I managed to
find out about two of Ernst I. but none of Ernst II.
Is anybody able to help me out?
The genealogical chart in Harald Sander's book »Das Haus Sachsen-Coburg
und Gotha« (Neue Presse, Coburg, 2001) indicates at least three
illegitimate children for Duke Ernst II:

Helene von Sternheim, born 1839 (by Fräulein Steinpflug)
Karl Raymond Frhr v. Ketschendorf, born 1848 (by Victorine Noel)
Kamillo Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, born 1852 (by Rosa von Löwenstern,
wife of Leon Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, chamberlain to the Duke)

Sam Dotson
edespalais
2004-06-29 15:24:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Samuel Dotson
Post by Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
I am looking for information on the natural sons/daugthers of
the Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Ernst I and Ernst II.
It is often mentioned that they had several natural children. I managed to
find out about two of Ernst I. but none of Ernst II.
Is anybody able to help me out?
The genealogical chart in Harald Sander's book »Das Haus Sachsen-Coburg
und Gotha« (Neue Presse, Coburg, 2001) indicates at least three
Helene von Sternheim, born 1839 (by Fräulein Steinpflug)
Karl Raymond Frhr v. Ketschendorf, born 1848 (by Victorine Noel)
Kamillo Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, born 1852 (by Rosa von Löwenstern,
wife of Leon Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, chamberlain to the Duke)
Sam Dotson
Razumovsky?
Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
2004-07-03 14:03:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by edespalais
Post by Samuel Dotson
Post by Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
I am looking for information on the natural sons/daugthers of
the Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Ernst I and Ernst II.
It is often mentioned that they had several natural children. I managed to
find out about two of Ernst I. but none of Ernst II.
Is anybody able to help me out?
The genealogical chart in Harald Sander's book »Das Haus Sachsen-Coburg
und Gotha« (Neue Presse, Coburg, 2001) indicates at least three
Helene von Sternheim, born 1839 (by Fräulein Steinpflug)
Karl Raymond Frhr v. Ketschendorf, born 1848 (by Victorine Noel)
Kamillo Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, born 1852 (by Rosa von Löwenstern,
wife of Leon Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, chamberlain to the Duke)
Sam Dotson
Razumovsky?
thank you very much indeed!! it is so helpful... great!!
Klaus
Georges Dufoux
2004-07-06 08:55:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
Post by edespalais
Post by Samuel Dotson
Post by Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
I am looking for information on the natural sons/daugthers of
the Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Ernst I and Ernst II.
It is often mentioned that they had several natural children. I managed to
find out about two of Ernst I. but none of Ernst II.
Is anybody able to help me out?
The genealogical chart in Harald Sander's book »Das Haus Sachsen-Coburg
und Gotha« (Neue Presse, Coburg, 2001) indicates at least three
Helene von Sternheim, born 1839 (by Fräulein Steinpflug)
Karl Raymond Frhr v. Ketschendorf, born 1848 (by Victorine Noel)
Kamillo Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, born 1852 (by Rosa von Löwenstern,
wife of Leon Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, chamberlain to the Duke)
Sam Dotson
Razumovsky?
thank you very much indeed!! it is so helpful... great!!
Klaus
The complete (known) natural descendency of Dukes Ernst I and II can
be found in my book : Une dynastie mythique : les Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha.
It collects all the descendants of Duke Franz (including Queen
Victoria, Leopold I etc.) with pedigrees & details on the picturesque
characters mentioned by H. Soszynski : Berta v. Schauenstein, who
married her first cousin,the natural son of Ernst I's elder sister
Juliane (lots of descendants discovered) - Adelaide Panam, who lived
in Paris with her son, a friend of Victot Hugo. She kept blackmailing
the duke, writing a book against him. - Count Razumovsky (the Austrian
spelling in spite of a Ukranian origin), the son of a circus rider for
whom the duke found a poor but noble husband... Those interested in
getting the pages (in French) concerning them can contact me on my
e-mail
G. Dufoux
edespalais
2004-07-06 09:03:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Georges Dufoux
Post by Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
Post by edespalais
Post by Samuel Dotson
Post by Klaus Meyer-Cabri van Amelrode
I am looking for information on the natural sons/daugthers of
the Dukes of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha Ernst I and Ernst II.
It is often mentioned that they had several natural children. I managed to
find out about two of Ernst I. but none of Ernst II.
Is anybody able to help me out?
The genealogical chart in Harald Sander's book »Das Haus Sachsen-Coburg
und Gotha« (Neue Presse, Coburg, 2001) indicates at least three
Helene von Sternheim, born 1839 (by Fräulein Steinpflug)
Karl Raymond Frhr v. Ketschendorf, born 1848 (by Victorine Noel)
Kamillo Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, born 1852 (by Rosa von Löwenstern,
wife of Leon Gf Razumovsky von Wigstein, chamberlain to the Duke)
Sam Dotson
Razumovsky?
thank you very much indeed!! it is so helpful... great!!
Klaus
The complete (known) natural descendency of Dukes Ernst I and II can
be found in my book : Une dynastie mythique : les Saxe-Cobourg-Gotha.
It collects all the descendants of Duke Franz (including Queen
Victoria, Leopold I etc.) with pedigrees & details on the picturesque
characters mentioned by H. Soszynski : Berta v. Schauenstein, who
married her first cousin,the natural son of Ernst I's elder sister
Juliane (lots of descendants discovered) - Adelaide Panam, who lived
in Paris with her son, a friend of Victot Hugo. She kept blackmailing
the duke, writing a book against him. - Count Razumovsky (the Austrian
spelling in spite of a Ukranian origin), the son of a circus rider for
whom the duke found a poor but noble husband... Those interested in
getting the pages (in French) concerning them can contact me on my
e-mail
G. Dufoux
Razumovsky is indeed the Austrian spelling. In Vienna no on dits concerning
the present R descendance from ..
PTheroff
2004-07-06 10:22:25 UTC
Permalink
How certain is it that Count Razumovsky was Ernst's bastard? If it's true, then
all the later Razumovskys are Coburg descendants.

...paul theroff
edespalais
2004-07-06 10:31:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by PTheroff
How certain is it that Count Razumovsky was Ernst's bastard? If it's true, then
all the later Razumovskys are Coburg descendants.
...paul theroff
THE question!
Georges Dufoux
2004-07-08 17:57:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by edespalais
Post by PTheroff
How certain is it that Count Razumovsky was Ernst's bastard? If it's true, then
all the later Razumovskys are Coburg descendants.
...paul theroff
THE question!
MY source for the Razumovsky case is somewhat ancient and dubious :
Count Paul Vassili : La Société de Vienne (10th ed., Paris, Nouvelle
Revue,1885)
Georges Dufoux
2004-07-08 17:57:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by edespalais
Post by PTheroff
How certain is it that Count Razumovsky was Ernst's bastard? If it's true, then
all the later Razumovskys are Coburg descendants.
...paul theroff
THE question!
MY source for the Razumovsky case is somewhat ancient and dubious :
Count Paul Vassili : La Société de Vienne (10th ed., Paris, Nouvelle
Revue,1885)
Georges Dufoux
2004-07-08 18:22:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by edespalais
Post by PTheroff
How certain is it that Count Razumovsky was Ernst's bastard? If it's true, then
all the later Razumovskys are Coburg descendants.
...paul theroff
THE question!
My source is the more dubious as it is ambiguous : "Count Razumovsky
is the son of a circus rider, once an intimate friend of duke Ernst
II, whom he generously married to a poor young nobleman, Count
Razumovsky". (Paul Vassili : la Société de Vienne,Paris,1885). "On ne
prête qu'aux riches." But I shouldn't have.
edespalais
2004-07-08 18:59:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Georges Dufoux
Post by edespalais
Post by PTheroff
How certain is it that Count Razumovsky was Ernst's bastard? If it's true, then
all the later Razumovskys are Coburg descendants.
...paul theroff
THE question!
My source is the more dubious as it is ambiguous : "Count Razumovsky
is the son of a circus rider, once an intimate friend of duke Ernst
II, whom he generously married to a poor young nobleman, Count
Razumovsky". (Paul Vassili : la Société de Vienne,Paris,1885). "On ne
prête qu'aux riches." But I shouldn't have.
Unknown
s***@gmail.com
2018-12-28 03:56:54 UTC
Permalink
Is anyone who originally responded on this thread still active here? @Sam Dotson? @Georges Dufoux?

There is a story in my family history about my great great grandmother having had a child with a Duke of Coburg-Saxe. I would love to speak with anyone who has information about Ernst II’s illegitimate children.

Please contact me at ***@gmail.com

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