Discussion:
German name change in 1917
(too old to reply)
Pablo
2004-10-03 16:20:44 UTC
Permalink
When King George V changed the name of the royal house from
Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (or Wettin) to Windsor he asked his relatives
living in Britain to drop their german titles and become British
aristocrats instead. This (I think) is a list of those who changed
titles:

HRH Princess Christian of Schleswig-Holstein>HRH The Princess
Christian (1846-)
HRH Princess Henry of Battenberg>HRH The Princess Beatrice (1857-)
(the King's aunts, daughters of Queen Victoria)
HGDH Princess Louis of Battenberg> Victoria Mountbatten, The
Marchioness of Milford Haven (1863-) (the King's 1st cousin, daughter
of his late aunt Princess Alice, Grand Duchess of Hesse)
HSH Prince Louis of Battenberg>Louis Mountbatten, 1st Marquess of
Milford Haven (1854-)(her husband, brother of the late Prince Henry
of Battenberg)
HSH Prince George of Battenberg>George Mountbatten, Earl of Medina
(1892-) later 2nd Marquess
HSH Princess George of Battenberg>Nada Mountbatten, Countess of Medina
(1896-) (their son and daughter-in-law)
HSH Prince Louis Francis of Battenberg >The Lord Louis Mountbatten
(1900-) later The Earl mountbatten of Buma
HSH Princess Louise of Battenberg> The Lady Louise Mountbatten (1889-)
later Crown Princess and then Queen of Sweden (Lord and Lady Milford
Haven's younger chidren; their elder daughter was already married and
was HRH Princess Andreas of Greece and Denmark, mother of Prince
Philip)
HH Prince Alexander of Battenberg>Alexander Mountbatten,1st Marquess
of Carisbrooke(1886-) (the King's 1st cousin,son of The Princess
Beatrice) he married soon after
HH Prince Leopold of Battenberg>The Lord Leopold Mountbatten
(1889-)(his brother) he was a haemophiliac and died unmarried
HH Princess Helena-Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein>HH Princess Helena
Victoria (1870-) (the King's 1st cousin, daughter of Princess
Christian)
HH Princess Aribert of Anhalt>HH Princess Marie Louise(1872-) (her
sister) she survived to attend the present queen's coronation in 1953
HH Prince Adolphus, Duke of Teck>Adolphus Cambridge,1st Marquess of
Cambridge(1868-)(the King's brother-in-law, Queen Mary's brother)
HH The Duchess of Teck>Margaret Cambridge, The Marchioness of
Cambridge(1871-)(his wife)
HH Prince George of Teck>George Cambridge, Earl of Eltham (1895-)
later 2nd Marquess
HSH Prince Frederick of Teck>The Lord Frederick Cambridge(1908-) kia
1940
HSH Princess Victoria Mary of Teck>The Lady Mary Cambridge(1897-)
later Duchess of Beaufort
HSH Princess Helena of Teck>The Lady Helena Cambridge(1899-) later
Gibbs (their children)
HSH Prince Alexander of Teck>Alexander Cambridge, 1st Earl of
Athlone(1874-) (Queen Mary's younger brother)
HRH Princess Alexander of Teck>HRH Princess Alice, Countess of
Athlone(1883-) (the King's sister-in-law and 1st cousin, daughter of
the late Duke of Albany) died in 1981 aged 97
HSH Prince Rupert of Teck>Rupert Cambridge, Viscount Trematon
(1907-) a haemophiliac he died from injuries received in a motor
accident
HSH Princess May of Teck>The Lady May Cambridge(1906-) later Abel
Smith (their children)

I'm not sure if HRH Prince Christian of Schleswig-Holstein (the King's
uncle by marriage) was affected by this decision as he died sometime
in 1917- does anyone know?
I believe the Gleichen family (descended from Queen Victoria's half-
sister, Princess Feodore) were like wise affected. Does anyone have
details?
George Knighton
2004-10-03 19:55:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Louis of Battenberg
Somebody please remind me what Pr Louis said about his meeting w/the King.

I can't remember how it goes.

"I went in as Prince Lucifier and came out as Marquess [something]."

Something like that. :)
Peter Tilman
2004-10-03 20:06:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by George Knighton
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Louis of Battenberg
Somebody please remind me what Pr Louis said about his meeting w/the King.
I can't remember how it goes.
"I went in as Prince Lucifier and came out as Marquess [something]."
Something like that. :)
"Enter Prince Jekyll, exit Lord Hyde."
Don Aitken
2004-10-04 06:43:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
When King George V changed the name of the royal house from
Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (or Wettin) to Windsor he asked his relatives
living in Britain to drop their german titles and become British
aristocrats instead. This (I think) is a list of those who changed
[snip]
Post by Pablo
I believe the Gleichen family (descended from Queen Victoria's half-
sister, Princess Feodore) were like wise affected. Does anyone have
details?
The children of Prince Victor zu Hohenlohe-Langenburg (third son of
Feodore) by his marriage to Lady Laura Seymour (younger sister of the
fifth Marquess of Hertford) changed from Graf/Grafin von Gleichen to
Lady Feodora, Lord Edward and Lady Helena Gleichen and Lady Valda
Machell (the second daughter, who was married to Percy Machell in
1905). The Gleichen title was granted to Laura and her issue by the
Duke of SCG on 24 Jan 1861, the day of her marriage, and so fell under
the ban on "German titles". The Queen, with her dislike for the German
rules on morganatic marriages, is said to have referred to her as
"Princess Laura", but she never officially held such a title. She died
in 1912.
--
Don Aitken

Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".
Gidzmo
2004-10-05 23:09:07 UTC
Permalink
From ***@yahoo.co.uk on 10/03/2004

George V's aunts (Victoria's daughters)
Post by Pablo
HRH Princess Christian of Schleswig-Holstein>HRH The Princess
Christian (1846-)
Post by Pablo
HRH Princess Henry of Battenberg>HRH The Princess Beatrice (1857-)
(daughter and son-in-law of Princess Alice, GDss of Hesse)
Post by Pablo
HGDH Princess Louis of Battenberg> Victoria Mountbatten, The
Marchioness of Milford Haven (1863-)
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Louis of Battenberg>Louis Mountbatten, 1st Marquess of Milford
Haven (1854-) (brother of the late Prince Henry of Battenberg)
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince George of Battenberg>George Mountbatten, Earl of Medina (1892-),
later 2nd Marquess
Post by Pablo
HSH Princess George of Battenberg>Nada Mountbatten, Countess of Medina (1896-)
HSH Prince Louis Francis of Battenberg >The Lord Louis Mountbatten
(1900-), later The Earl Mountbatten of Burma
Unfortunately blown up (along with one of his grandchildren) by the IRA. The
title is presently held by his eldest daughter (the Earl didn't have any sons).

(The Milford Havens' younger children)
Post by Pablo
HSH Princess Louise of Battenberg>The Lady Louise Mountbatten (1889-), later
Crown Princess, then Queen of Sweden (Princess Alice (Louise's sister) was
already married and was HRH Princess Andreas of Greece and Denmark, mother of
Prince Philip)

(sons of Princess Beatrice)
Post by Pablo
HH Prince Alexander of Battenberg>Alexander Mountbatten,1st Marquess of
Carisbrooke (1886-), he married soon after.
Post by Pablo
HH Prince Leopold of Battenberg>The Lord Leopold Mountbatten (1889-), he was a
haemophiliac and died unmarried.

Didn't Beatrice have one more son? I think his name was Maurice, but I don't
remember if he was alive in 1917.

(daughters of Princess Helena)
Post by Pablo
HH Princess Helena-Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein>HH Princess Helena
Victoria (1870-)
HH Princess Aribert of Anhalt>HH Princess Marie Louise (1872-), she survived
to attend the present Queen's coronation in 1953

Question: what exactly happened with Marie Louise's marriage? Divorce?

(Queen Mary's brothers, their spouses and children)
Post by Pablo
HH Prince Adolphus, Duke of Teck>Adolphus Cambridge, 1st Marquess of
Cambridge(1868-)
Post by Pablo
HH The Duchess of Teck>Margaret Cambridge, The Marchioness of Cambridge
(1871-)
Post by Pablo
HH Prince George of Teck>George Cambridge, Earl of Eltham (1895-), 2nd
Marquess
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Frederick of Teck>The Lord Frederick Cambridge (1908-), KIA 1940
HSH Princess Victoria Mary of Teck>The Lady Mary Cambridge (1897-), later
Duchess of Beaufort
Post by Pablo
HSH Princess Helena of Teck>The Lady Helena Cambridge (1899-), later Gibbs
(their children)
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Alexander of Teck>Alexander Cambridge, 1st Earl of Athlone (1874-)
HRH Princess Alexander of Teck>HRH Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone
(1883-), died in 1981 (aged 97)
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Rupert of Teck>Rupert Cambridge, Viscount Trematon (1907-). A
haemophiliac, he died from injuries received in a motor accident
Post by Pablo
HSH Princess May of Teck>The Lady May Cambridge (1906-), later Abel Smith
(their children)
Pablo
2004-10-06 18:15:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gidzmo
George V's aunts (Victoria's daughters)
Post by Pablo
HRH Princess Christian of Schleswig-Holstein>HRH The Princess
Christian (1846-)
Post by Pablo
HRH Princess Henry of Battenberg>HRH The Princess Beatrice (1857-)
(daughter and son-in-law of Princess Alice, GDss of Hesse)
Post by Pablo
HGDH Princess Louis of Battenberg> Victoria Mountbatten, The
Marchioness of Milford Haven (1863-)
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Louis of Battenberg>Louis Mountbatten, 1st Marquess of Milford
Haven (1854-) (brother of the late Prince Henry of Battenberg)
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince George of Battenberg>George Mountbatten, Earl of Medina (1892-),
later 2nd Marquess
Post by Pablo
HSH Princess George of Battenberg>Nada Mountbatten, Countess of Medina (1896-)
HSH Prince Louis Francis of Battenberg >The Lord Louis Mountbatten
(1900-), later The Earl Mountbatten of Burma
Unfortunately blown up (along with one of his grandchildren) by the IRA. The
title is presently held by his eldest daughter (the Earl didn't have any sons).
(The Milford Havens' younger children)
Post by Pablo
HSH Princess Louise of Battenberg>The Lady Louise Mountbatten (1889-), later
Crown Princess, then Queen of Sweden (Princess Alice (Louise's sister) was
already married and was HRH Princess Andreas of Greece and Denmark, mother of
Prince Philip)
(sons of Princess Beatrice)
Post by Pablo
HH Prince Alexander of Battenberg>Alexander Mountbatten,1st Marquess of
Carisbrooke (1886-), he married soon after.
Post by Pablo
HH Prince Leopold of Battenberg>The Lord Leopold Mountbatten (1889-), he was a
haemophiliac and died unmarried.
Didn't Beatrice have one more son? I think his name was Maurice, but I don't
remember if he was alive in 1917.
***Killed in action 1914 before the name chamge
Post by Gidzmo
(daughters of Princess Helena)
Post by Pablo
HH Princess Helena-Victoria of Schleswig-Holstein>HH Princess Helena
Victoria (1870-)
HH Princess Aribert of Anhalt>HH Princess Marie Louise (1872-), she survived
to attend the present Queen's coronation in 1953
Question: what exactly happened with Marie Louise's marriage? Divorce?
****In 1900 - she still regarded herself as married however
Post by Gidzmo
(Queen Mary's brothers, their spouses and children)
Post by Pablo
HH Prince Adolphus, Duke of Teck>Adolphus Cambridge, 1st Marquess of
Cambridge(1868-)
Post by Pablo
HH The Duchess of Teck>Margaret Cambridge, The Marchioness of Cambridge
(1871-)
Post by Pablo
HH Prince George of Teck>George Cambridge, Earl of Eltham (1895-), 2nd
Marquess
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Frederick of Teck>The Lord Frederick Cambridge (1908-), KIA 1940
HSH Princess Victoria Mary of Teck>The Lady Mary Cambridge (1897-), later
Duchess of Beaufort
Post by Pablo
HSH Princess Helena of Teck>The Lady Helena Cambridge (1899-), later Gibbs
(their children)
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Alexander of Teck>Alexander Cambridge, 1st Earl of Athlone (1874-)
HRH Princess Alexander of Teck>HRH Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone
(1883-), died in 1981 (aged 97)
Post by Pablo
HSH Prince Rupert of Teck>Rupert Cambridge, Viscount Trematon (1907-). A
haemophiliac, he died from injuries received in a motor accident
Post by Pablo
HSH Princess May of Teck>The Lady May Cambridge (1906-), later Abel Smith
(their children)
Gidzmo
2004-10-06 22:47:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
HH Princess Aribert of Anhalt>HH Princess Marie Louise (1872-), she survived
to attend the present Queen's coronation in 1953
Post by Pablo
Question: what exactly happened with Marie Louise's marriage? Divorce?
****In 1900 - she still regarded herself as married, however
Ah, yes--as I remember from my reading, it wasn't Marie Louise doing the
cuckolding. And Aribert's father tried to blame it all on her, and both sides
agreed to the divorce just to avoid the scandal.
Post by Pablo
Didn't Beatrice have one more son? I think his name was Maurice, but I
don't remember if he was alive in 1917.
***Killed in action 1914, before the name change
Maurice's commander apparently wanted to send his remains home for a proper
burial, but Beatrice was said to have vetoed that idea (she thought that he
would want to be buried with his unit).

I'm surprised that he was even allowed to be in the battle, considering that he
was a hemophiliac.
Andy.III
2004-10-07 04:31:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gidzmo
I'm surprised that he was even allowed to be in the battle, considering that he
was a hemophiliac.
HE wasn't-had he been he would never have been allowed in the armed forces to
begin with; much less into battle.


Andy.III
--
SHOW YOUR VOTE 2004
IF you support Kerry, please drive during the DAY with your headlights ON.
IF you support Bush, please drive at NIGHT with your headlights OFF.
Thank you for your participation.
Candide
2004-10-07 04:39:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gidzmo
Post by Pablo
HH Princess Aribert of Anhalt>HH Princess Marie Louise (1872-), she survived
to attend the present Queen's coronation in 1953
Post by Pablo
Question: what exactly happened with Marie Louise's marriage?
Divorce?
Post by Gidzmo
Post by Pablo
****In 1900 - she still regarded herself as married, however
Ah, yes--as I remember from my reading, it wasn't Marie Louise doing the
cuckolding. And Aribert's father tried to blame it all on her, and both sides
agreed to the divorce just to avoid the scandal.
IIRC the story goes Prince Aribert was a shirt lifter and had been
discovered with a male companion in circumstances very compromising.

The marriage between Princess Marie-Louise and Prince Aribert was not
happy and childless. In 1900 the reigning Duke of Anhalt used a
pretence that Marie-Louise had abandoned her husband to have the
marriage annulled. By "abandoned" not sure if the duke meant
Marie-Louise was not fulfilling her wifely duties, thus the childless
state of her marriage or something else.

According to reports Queen Victoria upon hearing of all this was to have
said "send my grand-daughter home to me", as the princess was in Canada
on a official royal visit at the time of proceedings. Princess
Marie-Louise returned at once to Britain and regarded her marriage as
still valid and never remarried.

Edward VII was reported to have said of the entire affair: poor Louise,
she returned as she went, a virgin".

It has never been clear what if anything Marie-Louise knew of her
husband's tendencies, or of the true circumstances leading to the
dissolution of her marriage.

Candide
Gidzmo
2004-10-07 21:40:07 UTC
Permalink
IIRC the story goes Prince Aribert was a shirt-lifter and had been discovered
with a male companion in circumstances very compromising.

THAT part I had read about. Aribert was often away, too, on military business.
In 1900, the reigning Duke of Anhalt used a pretence that Marie-Louise had
abandoned her husband to have the
marriage annulled. By "abandoned" not sure if the Duke meant Marie-Louise was
not fulfilling her wifely duties, thus the childless state of her marriage or
something else.

From what I had read, the Duke WAS the law in Anhalt. He probably meant both
the "non-fulfillment of wifely duties" and having gone abroad without his
permission (apparently Marie Louise went to Canada, but not for an official
royal visit--it was more to get away from the situation in Anhalt).

Victoria's was not the first telegram to reach her, either: the Duke sent one
ordering her to return to Anhalt immediately. Victoria's followed right
behind.
Tom Mix
2004-10-08 01:47:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
Post by Gidzmo
Post by Pablo
HH Princess Aribert of Anhalt>HH Princess Marie Louise (1872-), she
survived
Post by Gidzmo
to attend the present Queen's coronation in 1953
Post by Pablo
Question: what exactly happened with Marie Louise's marriage?
Divorce?
Post by Gidzmo
Post by Pablo
****In 1900 - she still regarded herself as married, however
Ah, yes--as I remember from my reading, it wasn't Marie Louise doing
the
Post by Gidzmo
cuckolding. And Aribert's father tried to blame it all on her, and
both sides
Post by Gidzmo
agreed to the divorce just to avoid the scandal.
IIRC the story goes Prince Aribert was a shirt lifter and had been
discovered with a male companion in circumstances very compromising.
The marriage between Princess Marie-Louise and Prince Aribert was not
happy and childless. In 1900 the reigning Duke of Anhalt used a
pretence that Marie-Louise had abandoned her husband to have the
marriage annulled. By "abandoned" not sure if the duke meant
Marie-Louise was not fulfilling her wifely duties, thus the childless
state of her marriage or something else.
According to reports Queen Victoria upon hearing of all this was to have
said "send my grand-daughter home to me", as the princess was in Canada
on a official royal visit at the time of proceedings. Princess
Marie-Louise returned at once to Britain and regarded her marriage as
still valid and never remarried.
Edward VII was reported to have said of the entire affair: poor Louise,
she returned as she went, a virgin".
It has never been clear what if anything Marie-Louise knew of her
husband's tendencies, or of the true circumstances leading to the
dissolution of her marriage.
Candide
Here is what Princess Louise had to say about this matter-
fm: "My Memories Of Six Reigns"

by: Her Highness Princess Marie Louise

pg: 90-91

At last I reached home—Cumberland Lodge. My parents and my sister
were there to meet me in the hall. You can imagine the babel of talk!
I was completely bewildered, and could not understand or in the least
manner grasp why I had been summoned back in this peremptory manner by
my father-in-law. Eventually, when the hubbub had died down and I had
been released from the embraces of my parents and my sister, my father
produced a letter from my husband which was the key to the whole
situation. He had written that life with me as his companion was
intolerable (I refrain from using the much stronger expression written
by him), and he had therefore requested his father to exercise his
sovereign right and declare the marriage null and void. In this
extraordinary letter he stated that he was a young man and had the
right to live his life in his own way, and at the end he signed
himself, "Your devoted and obedient son-in-law, Aribert, Prince of
Anhalt!" Truly, Germans have no sense of humor!

My father insisted on knowing the why and wherefore of this
annulment and reasons for it. The list of accusations brought against
me was so fantastic and absurd that it is not even worth mentioning.
To give you some slight idea of the horror of these accusations: when
the dear old German lawyer, into whose hands my father had entrusted
the settling of the matrimonial disaster, interviewed me at Cumberland
Lodge, he confessed that the charges that my husband had brought
against me were of such a nature that he could not insult me by
reading them to me. I could not understand what he meant, but there
was one accusation which my husband did not bring against me, because
he could not, and that was the charge of infidelity.

Strange as it may seem to us who are accustomed to British justice
as established by law, in the days of which I write the independent
sovereigns of the small German states had the right to pass laws
applicable to their families, outside the jurisdiction of what was
called the Burgerliche Gesetzbuch, corresponding to our Common Law.
My father-in-law, exercising this medieval prerogative, with one
stroke of the pen signed a document annulling my marriage. This
annulment, which to me was such a tragedy, is today of no importance
to the world at large, but it has left a scar which many long years
have not been able to efface. Yet, bitter though the experience and
suffering have been, I am grateful that they have enabled me to
understand better the sorrows and difficulties of those around me.
"Judge not...".
I have let you, my kind readers, into a very intimate chapter of my
life. But what I would like you to understand is, that the reason I
have never married again is because my marriage was according to the
Church of England with its solemn and binding vows, and no arbitrary
local family law could absolve me from these marriage vows.

Regards,
Tom Mix
Candide
2004-10-08 04:39:12 UTC
Permalink
"Tom Mix" <***@excite.com> wrote in message news:***@posting.google.com...
snipped
Post by Tom Mix
by: Her Highness Princess Marie Louise
pg: 90-91
At last I reached home-Cumberland Lodge. My parents and my sister
were there to meet me in the hall. You can imagine the babel of talk!
I was completely bewildered, and could not understand or in the least
manner grasp why I had been summoned back in this peremptory manner by
my father-in-law. Eventually, when the hubbub had died down and I had
been released from the embraces of my parents and my sister, my father
produced a letter from my husband which was the key to the whole
situation. He had written that life with me as his companion was
intolerable (I refrain from using the much stronger expression written
by him), and he had therefore requested his father to exercise his
sovereign right and declare the marriage null and void. In this
extraordinary letter he stated that he was a young man and had the
right to live his life in his own way, and at the end he signed
himself, "Your devoted and obedient son-in-law, Aribert, Prince of
Anhalt!" Truly, Germans have no sense of humor!
My father insisted on knowing the why and wherefore of this
annulment and reasons for it. The list of accusations brought against
me was so fantastic and absurd that it is not even worth mentioning.
snipped,

So it would seem Marie-Louise was accused of "constructive abandonment"
or the German equal. Still wonder if she knew about her husband's
"hobby". Tend to think not as her husband and certainly not his family
would want that sort of information to get about, much less in the hands
of a scorned woman.

OTHO Edward VII, who loved scandal and gossip in high places probably
knew, but the code of the day would have ever prevented him breathing a
word to Marie-Louise.
Gidzmo
2004-10-11 23:15:00 UTC
Permalink
Still wonder if she knew about her husband's "hobby". Tend to think not as
her husband and certainly not his family
would want that sort of information to get about, much less in the hands of a
scorned woman.
OTHO Edward VII, who loved scandal and gossip in high places probably knew,
but the code of the day would have ever prevented him breathing a word to
Marie-Louise.

Aribert's "hobby" was probably NOT discussed in the presence of the ladies (and
especially not the unmarried ladies).

As I mentioned upthread, I had read that Aribert's father WAS the law in
Anhalt. He could (and did) end the marriage.

Homosexuality was a crime in the UK at the time (I don't know if it was also
thus in Germany). But neither family (Aribert's or Marie's) wished for the
circumstances to be
made public (which would have created a major scandal), thus the agreement to
end the marriage.

Wonder if Aribert ever remarried? Marie Louise never did--she considered
herself a married woman to the end.
Candide
2004-10-12 00:48:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Candide
Still wonder if she knew about her husband's "hobby". Tend to think not as
her husband and certainly not his family
would want that sort of information to get about, much less in the hands of a
scorned woman.
OTHO Edward VII, who loved scandal and gossip in high places probably knew,
but the code of the day would have ever prevented him breathing a word to
Marie-Louise.
Aribert's "hobby" was probably NOT discussed in the presence of the ladies (and
especially not the unmarried ladies).
Of course,
Post by Candide
As I mentioned upthread, I had read that Aribert's father WAS the law in
Anhalt. He could (and did) end the marriage.
And the duke did so, but at the expense of Princess Louise's reputation
. To imply the marriage was childness due to her "abandonment" of her
husband, implying the princesses refused to do her duty by her husband.
Post by Candide
Homosexuality was a crime in the UK at the time (I don't know if it was also
thus in Germany). But neither family (Aribert's or Marie's) wished for the
circumstances to be
made public (which would have created a major scandal), thus the agreement to
end the marriage.
IIRC there was one or two other female descendants of Queen Victoria who
found themselves married to homosexuals. Didn't one of them involve the
Irish Crown Jewels affair?
Post by Candide
Wonder if Aribert ever remarried? Marie Louise never did--she
considered
Post by Candide
herself a married woman to the end.
Can't imagine any woman knowingly wishing to marry given the
circumstances of Aribert's annulment. While it may have not been common
knowledge to the world, quite sure in imperial and royal drawing rooms,
tongues wagged. Of course if a suitable and "accommodating" woman could
be found, things might be different. Sort of along the lines of the
Sackville-West marriage.

Candide
e***@wanadoo.fr
2004-10-12 07:37:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Candide
Post by Candide
Still wonder if she knew about her husband's "hobby". Tend to think
not as
Post by Candide
her husband and certainly not his family
would want that sort of information to get about, much less in the
hands of a
Post by Candide
scorned woman.
OTHO Edward VII, who loved scandal and gossip in high places probably
knew,
Post by Candide
but the code of the day would have ever prevented him breathing a word
to
Post by Candide
Marie-Louise.
Aribert's "hobby" was probably NOT discussed in the presence of the
ladies (and
Post by Candide
especially not the unmarried ladies).
Of course,
Post by Candide
As I mentioned upthread, I had read that Aribert's father WAS the law
in
Post by Candide
Anhalt. He could (and did) end the marriage.
And the duke did so, but at the expense of Princess Louise's reputation
. To imply the marriage was childness due to her "abandonment" of her
husband, implying the princesses refused to do her duty by her husband.
Post by Candide
Homosexuality was a crime in the UK at the time (I don't know if it
was also
Post by Candide
thus in Germany). But neither family (Aribert's or Marie's) wished
for the
Post by Candide
circumstances to be
made public (which would have created a major scandal), thus the
agreement to
Post by Candide
end the marriage.
IIRC there was one or two other female descendants of Queen Victoria who
found themselves married to homosexuals. Didn't one of them involve the
Irish Crown Jewels affair?
Post by Candide
Wonder if Aribert ever remarried? Marie Louise never did--she
considered
Post by Candide
herself a married woman to the end.
Can't imagine any woman knowingly wishing to marry given the
circumstances of Aribert's annulment. While it may have not been common
knowledge to the world, quite sure in imperial and royal drawing rooms,
tongues wagged. Of course if a suitable and "accommodating" woman could
be found, things might be different. Sort of along the lines of the
Sackville-West marriage.
Candide
Suppose p of Ruritania, Germany
Gidzmo
2004-10-12 22:33:52 UTC
Permalink
To imply the marriage was childness due to her "abandonment" of her husband,
implying the princess refused to do her duty by her husband.

Sounds like Marie Louise took the blame for the marriage's breakdown, and it
wasn't even her fault--you can't have a child with a husband who's never
around, or indulging himself in an <ahem> "hobby."
IIRC there was one or two other female descendants of Queen Victoria who found
themselves married to homosexuals.

The only two I can think of:
1) Prss. Victoria Melita of SCG/Edinburgh
(Alfred's daughter).
a) first marriage to GD Ernest of Hesse/by Rhine (she stated that Ernest was a
homosexual). No children from that marriage.
b) second marrage to GD Cyril Vladmirovitch of Russia (relative of Nicholas
II). Their son (GD Vladmir Cyrillovitch) became de jure Emperor of Russia
after the murders of Nicholas, Tsarevitch Alexis, and GD Michael.

2) Princess Elizabeth of Hesse/by Rhine (Alice's daughter and sister to Empress
Alexandra and the Marchioness of Milford Haven)--married to GD Sergei
Alexandrovitch of Russia (another relative of Nicholas II). Sergei was
apparently a homosexual (or a bisexual). No children from the marriage.
Didn't one of them involve the Irish Crown Jewels affair?
Thought that was Edward VII who was involved in that.
James Dempster
2004-10-13 05:31:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gidzmo
To imply the marriage was childness due to her "abandonment" of her husband,
implying the princess refused to do her duty by her husband.
Sounds like Marie Louise took the blame for the marriage's breakdown, and it
wasn't even her fault--you can't have a child with a husband who's never
around, or indulging himself in an <ahem> "hobby."
IIRC there was one or two other female descendants of Queen Victoria who found
themselves married to homosexuals.
1) Prss. Victoria Melita of SCG/Edinburgh
(Alfred's daughter).
a) first marriage to GD Ernest of Hesse/by Rhine (she stated that Ernest was a
homosexual). No children from that marriage.
b) second marrage to GD Cyril Vladmirovitch of Russia (relative of Nicholas
II). Their son (GD Vladmir Cyrillovitch) became de jure Emperor of Russia
after the murders of Nicholas, Tsarevitch Alexis, and GD Michael.
2) Princess Elizabeth of Hesse/by Rhine (Alice's daughter and sister to Empress
Alexandra and the Marchioness of Milford Haven)--married to GD Sergei
Alexandrovitch of Russia (another relative of Nicholas II). Sergei was
apparently a homosexual (or a bisexual). No children from the marriage.
Didn't one of them involve the Irish Crown Jewels affair?
Thought that was Edward VII who was involved in that.
The reference is to Princess Louise and the Duke of Argyll. A recent
TV programme "The Queer Affair of the Irish Crown Jewels" (Channel 4 &
History Channel) claimed that Frank Shackleton, a Pursuivant or Herald
under Sir Arthur Vicars was the brains behind the theft, but that he
was "protected" as he was a lover of the Duke of Argyll.

James
James Dempster (remove nospam to reply by email)

You know you've had a good night
when you wake up
and someone's outlining you in chalk.
Nicholas Trahan
2004-10-13 12:40:00 UTC
Permalink
Newsgroups: alt.talk.royalty
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:31:04 +0100
Subject: Re: Princess Marie Louise (Re: German name change in 1917)
Post by Gidzmo
To imply the marriage was childness due to her "abandonment" of her husband,
implying the princess refused to do her duty by her husband.
Sounds like Marie Louise took the blame for the marriage's breakdown, and it
wasn't even her fault--you can't have a child with a husband who's never
around, or indulging himself in an <ahem> "hobby."
IIRC there was one or two other female descendants of Queen Victoria who found
themselves married to homosexuals.
1) Prss. Victoria Melita of SCG/Edinburgh
(Alfred's daughter).
a) first marriage to GD Ernest of Hesse/by Rhine (she stated that Ernest was a
homosexual). No children from that marriage.
There was a daughter, Elizabeth, from this marriage. She died in 1905.

Nicholas TRahan
Anne
2004-10-13 21:58:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicholas Trahan
Newsgroups: alt.talk.royalty
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 06:31:04 +0100
Subject: Re: Princess Marie Louise (Re: German name change in 1917)
Post by Gidzmo
To imply the marriage was childness due to her "abandonment" of her husband,
implying the princess refused to do her duty by her husband.
Sounds like Marie Louise took the blame for the marriage's breakdown, and it
wasn't even her fault--you can't have a child with a husband who's never
around, or indulging himself in an <ahem> "hobby."
IIRC there was one or two other female descendants of Queen Victoria who
found
themselves married to homosexuals.
1) Prss. Victoria Melita of SCG/Edinburgh
(Alfred's daughter).
a) first marriage to GD Ernest of Hesse/by Rhine (she stated that
Ernest was
Post by Nicholas Trahan
Post by Gidzmo
a
homosexual). No children from that marriage.
There was a daughter, Elizabeth, from this marriage. She died in 1905.
There was also a stillborn son in 1900.
TwoBsBob
2004-10-13 13:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gidzmo
1) Prss. Victoria Melita of SCG/Edinburgh
(Alfred's daughter).
a) first marriage to GD Ernest of Hesse/by Rhine (she stated that Ernest was a
homosexual). No children from that marriage.
There was a child from that marriage, a daughter named Elizabeth
(IIRC) who died in childhood.
Lori
2004-10-13 17:21:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by TwoBsBob
Post by Gidzmo
1) Prss. Victoria Melita of SCG/Edinburgh
(Alfred's daughter).
a) first marriage to GD Ernest of Hesse/by Rhine (she stated that Ernest was a
homosexual). No children from that marriage.
There was a child from that marriage, a daughter named Elizabeth
(IIRC) who died in childhood.
And a stillborn son in 1900. Ernest also had children with his second
wife, so doubt he was homosexual.
Candide
2004-10-13 19:33:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lori
Post by TwoBsBob
Post by Gidzmo
1) Prss. Victoria Melita of SCG/Edinburgh
(Alfred's daughter).
a) first marriage to GD Ernest of Hesse/by Rhine (she stated that Ernest was a
homosexual). No children from that marriage.
There was a child from that marriage, a daughter named Elizabeth
(IIRC) who died in childhood.
And a stillborn son in 1900. Ernest also had children with his second
wife, so doubt he was homosexual.
My dear, if only that was all there was to it, but one has absolutely
nothing to do with the other.

Regarding my reference to the Sackville-West marriage; Vita was a
lesbian, her husband a homosexual. Not only did they enjoy a long and by
most accounts a "happy" marriage, but had two children as well.

More recently quite a few wives have found themselves being divorced
due to their husbands leaving them for a man. One famous example was
Mrs. Jan Wenner, wife of Rolling Stone magazine publisher, and mother of
his children, whose husband, woke up one day announced he was gay, and
moved in with a former male model. Also Mrs. James McGreevy, wife of
the governor of New Jersey, and mother of his children would have
something to say about your theory.

Candide
A Tsar Is Born
2004-10-14 04:36:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Candide
More recently quite a few wives have found themselves being divorced
due to their husbands leaving them for a man. One famous example was
Mrs. Jan Wenner, wife of Rolling Stone magazine publisher, and mother of
his children, whose husband, woke up one day announced he was gay, and
moved in with a former male model. Also Mrs. James McGreevy, wife of
the governor of New Jersey, and mother of his children would have
something to say about your theory.
Candide
Also Arianna Stassinopoulos Huffington. (Two children)

And Felicia Montealegre Bernstein. (Three children)

And Constance Lloyd Wilde, for the matter of that. (Two children, never divorced.)

Jean Coeur de Lapin
Nicholas Trahan
2004-10-14 12:39:43 UTC
Permalink
Newsgroups: alt.talk.royalty
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:33:56 -0400
Subject: Re: Princess Marie Louise (Re: German name change in 1917)
[BIG SNIP]
My dear, if only that was all there was to it, but one has absolutely
nothing to do with the other.
Regarding my reference to the Sackville-West marriage; Vita was a
lesbian, her husband a homosexual. Not only did they enjoy a long and by
most accounts a "happy" marriage, but had two children as well.
More recently quite a few wives have found themselves being divorced
due to their husbands leaving them for a man. One famous example was
Mrs. Jan Wenner, wife of Rolling Stone magazine publisher, and mother of
his children, whose husband, woke up one day announced he was gay, and
moved in with a former male model. Also Mrs. James McGreevy, wife of
the governor of New Jersey, and mother of his children would have
something to say about your theory.
Candide
Dear Candide,

There are MANY who doubt that Mr. McGreevy is a homosexual. Rather he is
using this as a smoke screen to divert attention from the MANY illegal
activities he enjoyed as Governor. Just read the press in the months leading
up to his announcement. He was but days away from being indicted.

Nicholas
A Tsar Is Born
2004-10-14 04:40:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gidzmo
To imply the marriage was childness due to her "abandonment" of her husband,
implying the princess refused to do her duty by her husband.
Sounds like Marie Louise took the blame for the marriage's breakdown, and it
wasn't even her fault--you can't have a child with a husband who's never
around, or indulging himself in an <ahem> "hobby."
If she'd been that kind of woman, she could certainly have had a child
or two and dared Aribert not to acknowledge them.
Post by Gidzmo
IIRC there was one or two other female descendants of Queen Victoria who found
themselves married to homosexuals.
1) Prss. Victoria Melita of SCG/Edinburgh
(Alfred's daughter).
a) first marriage to GD Ernest of Hesse/by Rhine (she stated that Ernest was a
homosexual). No children from that marriage.
Two. And he had others by his second wife. And I don't think she ever
publicly stated he was anything of the sort, though of course he was.
Post by Gidzmo
b) second marrage to GD Cyril Vladmirovitch of Russia (relative of Nicholas
II). Their son (GD Vladmir Cyrillovitch) became de jure Emperor of Russia
after the murders of Nicholas, Tsarevitch Alexis, and GD Michael.
He did nothing of the sort.
(A typical Gidzmo remark.)
KYRIL became de jure Tsar after the murders, and remained so for
twenty years.
Near the end of which Victoria left him in a fury.
No one knows why -- my guess is he had had an affair and infected her
with an embarrassing disease.

Jean Coeur de Lapin
Candide
2004-10-14 07:49:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by A Tsar Is Born
Post by Gidzmo
To imply the marriage was childness due to her "abandonment" of her husband,
implying the princess refused to do her duty by her husband.
Sounds like Marie Louise took the blame for the marriage's
breakdown, and it
Post by A Tsar Is Born
Post by Gidzmo
wasn't even her fault--you can't have a child with a husband who's never
around, or indulging himself in an <ahem> "hobby."
If she'd been that kind of woman, she could certainly have had a child
or two and dared Aribert not to acknowledge them.
Can you imagine what the Duke and Aribert would have done to
Marie-Louise? Shudder to think of all the cruel things from having her
children taken away, and or being put away somewhere. If the duke and
Aribert were not above spending an innocent woman's reputation to
dissolve a marriage, imagine what they would have done to a guilty one.


Candide
Gidzmo
2004-10-14 21:56:37 UTC
Permalink
Can you imagine what the Duke and Aribert would have done to Marie-Louise?
Shudder to think of all the cruel things from having her children taken away,
and or being put away somewhere. If the duke and
Aribert were not above spending an innocent woman's reputation to dissolve a
marriage, imagine what they would have done to a guilty one.

Reminds me of Sophia Dorothea (wife of George I). She was divorced and
confined to a castle in Germany before George succeeded Queen Anne. She never
saw her children again (and, IIRC, George I only survived her by a few months
or so).

Christopher Buyers
2004-10-08 06:19:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gidzmo
(daughter and son-in-law of Princess Alice, GDss of Hesse)
Post by Pablo
HGDH Princess Louis of Battenberg> Victoria Mountbatten, The
Marchioness of Milford Haven (1863-)
There is no evidence to suggest that Princess Victoria renounced her
German styles or titles. She simply assumed the new styles of the wife
of her husband, after he was created a Marquess.

Cheers,
Christopher Buyers
Gidzmo
2004-10-11 23:17:59 UTC
Permalink
From ***@virgin.net on 10/07/2004

(from CPaulHamilton on 03 October)
(daughter and son-in-law of Princess Alice, GDss of Hesse) HGDH Princess
Louis of Battenberg-->Victoria Mountbatten, The Marchioness of Milford Haven
(1863-)
There is no evidence to suggest that Princess Victoria renounced her German
styles or titles. She simply assumed the new styles of the wife of her husband,
after he was created a Marquess.

Were the Milford Havens styled as HRH or HSH before the name-change? If so,
how were they styled after?
Christopher Buyers
2004-10-12 06:26:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Gidzmo
(from CPaulHamilton on 03 October)
(daughter and son-in-law of Princess Alice, GDss of Hesse) HGDH Princess
Louis of Battenberg-->Victoria Mountbatten, The Marchioness of Milford Haven
(1863-)
There is no evidence to suggest that Princess Victoria renounced her German
styles or titles. She simply assumed the new styles of the wife of her husband,
after he was created a Marquess.
Were the Milford Havens styled as HRH or HSH before the name-change? If so,
how were they styled after?
Prince Louis of Battenberg was styled HSH before he rounced his
titles. His wife was HGDH.
Graham Truesdale
2004-10-07 21:07:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
When King George V changed the name of the royal house from
Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (or Wettin) to Windsor he asked his relatives
living in Britain to drop their german titles and become British
aristocrats instead. This (I think) is a list of those who changed
(snip)
HSH Prince Louis of Battenberg>Louis Mountbatten, 1st Marquess of
Milford Haven (1854-)(her husband, brother of the late Prince Henry
of Battenberg)
HSH Prince George of Battenberg>George Mountbatten, Earl of Medina
(1892-) later 2nd Marquess
[ ] their elder daughter was already married and
was HRH Princess Andreas of Greece and Denmark, mother of Prince
Philip)
In light of the Scots custom of a married woman keeping her maiden
name for some purposes, I wonder how Prince Philip's mother appeared
in the records of Gordonstoun.
Christopher Buyers
2004-10-08 06:10:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graham Truesdale
Post by Pablo
When King George V changed the name of the royal house from
Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (or Wettin) to Windsor he asked his relatives
living in Britain to drop their german titles and become British
aristocrats instead. This (I think) is a list of those who changed
(snip)
HSH Prince Louis of Battenberg>Louis Mountbatten, 1st Marquess of
Milford Haven (1854-)(her husband, brother of the late Prince Henry
of Battenberg)
HSH Prince George of Battenberg>George Mountbatten, Earl of Medina
(1892-) later 2nd Marquess
[ ] their elder daughter was already married and
was HRH Princess Andreas of Greece and Denmark, mother of Prince
Philip)
In light of the Scots custom of a married woman keeping her maiden
name for some purposes, I wonder how Prince Philip's mother appeared
in the records of Gordonstoun.
Presumably as "HRH Princess Andrew of Greece". That was the style used
in press reports, Court Circulars, etc. in the UK during the 1950s and
1960s. Thats how she also appeared in the old Army Lists.

Cheers,
Christopher Buyers
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