Discussion:
Aristocratic marriages, May, 2004
(too old to reply)
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-08 12:03:04 UTC
Permalink
The marriage took place, 1 May, 2004, between Stephen Newman, eldest
son of Mr & Mrs John Newman, of Ringwood Hampshire, & Samantha Louise
(b. 1969), former wife of her cousin Wensley Grosvenor Haydon-Baillie,
formerly of Wentworth Woodhouse, South Yorkshire, & daughter of John
William Brian Dyke Acland (b. 1942), scion of the Acland Baronets of
Columb-St John, by his wife, Georgina Scarborough.

--Michael Rhodes (please delete the x to e-mail me)
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-11 00:00:37 UTC
Permalink
The marriage took place at the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, 7
May, 2004, between James Harold Charles Hamilton, styled Marquess of
Hamilton (b. 19 Aug, 1969), son and heir of the 5th Duke of Abercorn,
KG, (b. 1934), by his wife the former Alexandra Phillips, daughter of
the late Lt-Col Harold Pedro Joseph Phillips, FRGS, by his wife,
Georgina Wernher [b. 1919], daughter of Sir Harold Augustus Wernher,
GCVO, TD [1893-1973], of Luton Hoo, by his wife, the Lady Anastasia
[Zia] Wernher, CBE, [nee de Torby], elder daughter of Grand Duke
Mikhail of Russia [1861-1929], by his morganatic wife, Sophia
Nikolaievna, Countess de Torby, elder dau of Prince Nikolaus Wilhelm
of Nassau, by his morganatic wife Countess Natalia von Merenberg [nee
Pushkin]; and Miss Tanya Nation. Lord Nicholas Hamilton was best man.
The reception was held at St James's Palace.
Post by Michael Rhodes
--Michael Rhodes (please delete the x to e-mail me)
Elisabet Bartram
2004-05-11 09:35:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Rhodes
The marriage took place at the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, 7
May, 2004, between James Harold Charles Hamilton, styled Marquess of
Hamilton (b. 19 Aug, 1969), son and heir of the 5th Duke of Abercorn,
KG, (b. 1934), by his wife the former Alexandra Phillips, daughter of
the late Lt-Col Harold Pedro Joseph Phillips, FRGS, by his wife,
Georgina Wernher [b. 1919], daughter of Sir Harold Augustus Wernher,
GCVO, TD [1893-1973], of Luton Hoo, by his wife, the Lady Anastasia
[Zia] Wernher, CBE, [nee de Torby], elder daughter of Grand Duke
Mikhail of Russia [1861-1929], by his morganatic wife, Sophia
Nikolaievna, Countess de Torby, elder dau of Prince Nikolaus Wilhelm
of Nassau, by his morganatic wife Countess Natalia von Merenberg [nee
Pushkin]; and Miss Tanya Nation. Lord Nicholas Hamilton was best man.
The reception was held at St James's Palace.
Do you have any additional information about the bride Miss Tanya
Nation? Like for example when was she born, where, does she have
English roots or maybe Russian ( just thinking about her name ).

Regards, Elisabet
Grrarrggh
2004-05-11 10:26:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Rhodes
The marriage took place at the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, 7
May, 2004, between James Harold Charles Hamilton, styled Marquess of
Hamilton (b. 19 Aug, 1969), son and heir of the 5th Duke of Abercorn,
KG, (b. 1934), by his wife the former Alexandra Phillips, daughter of
the late Lt-Col Harold Pedro Joseph Phillips, FRGS, by his wife,
Georgina Wernher [b. 1919], daughter of Sir Harold Augustus Wernher,
GCVO, TD [1893-1973], of Luton Hoo, by his wife, the Lady Anastasia
[Zia] Wernher, CBE, [nee de Torby], elder daughter of Grand Duke
Mikhail of Russia [1861-1929], by his morganatic wife, Sophia
Nikolaievna, Countess de Torby, elder dau of Prince Nikolaus Wilhelm
of Nassau, by his morganatic wife Countess Natalia von Merenberg [nee
Pushkin]; and Miss Tanya Nation. Lord Nicholas Hamilton was best man.
The reception was held at St James's Palace.
Is the bride any relation to Tally Westminster?

Tam
Louis Epstein
2004-05-11 22:22:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grrarrggh
Post by Michael Rhodes
The marriage took place at the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, 7
May, 2004, between James Harold Charles Hamilton, styled Marquess of
Hamilton (b. 19 Aug, 1969), son and heir of the 5th Duke of Abercorn,
KG, (b. 1934), by his wife the former Alexandra Phillips, daughter of
the late Lt-Col Harold Pedro Joseph Phillips, FRGS, by his wife,
Georgina Wernher [b. 1919], daughter of Sir Harold Augustus Wernher,
GCVO, TD [1893-1973], of Luton Hoo, by his wife, the Lady Anastasia
[Zia] Wernher, CBE, [nee de Torby], elder daughter of Grand Duke
Mikhail of Russia [1861-1929], by his morganatic wife, Sophia
Nikolaievna, Countess de Torby, elder dau of Prince Nikolaus Wilhelm
of Nassau, by his morganatic wife Countess Natalia von Merenberg [nee
Pushkin]; and Miss Tanya Nation. Lord Nicholas Hamilton was best man.
The reception was held at St James's Palace.
Is the bride any relation to Tally Westminster?
Tam
Surely the above spells out explicitly that the GROOM'S MOTHER
is the elder sister of the Duchess of Westminster?
Michael's text identifies both of Her Grace of Westminster's
parents as the parents of Her Grace of Abercorn...while it
is completely mute on any kinship to the bride.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-11 23:51:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grrarrggh
Post by Michael Rhodes
The marriage took place at the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, 7
May, 2004, between James Harold Charles Hamilton, styled Marquess of
Hamilton (b. 19 Aug, 1969), son and heir of the 5th Duke of Abercorn,
KG, (b. 1934), by his wife the former Alexandra Phillips, daughter of
the late Lt-Col Harold Pedro Joseph Phillips, FRGS, by his wife,
Georgina Wernher [b. 1919], daughter of Sir Harold Augustus Wernher,
GCVO, TD [1893-1973], of Luton Hoo, by his wife, the Lady Anastasia
[Zia] Wernher, CBE, [nee de Torby], elder daughter of Grand Duke
Mikhail of Russia [1861-1929], by his morganatic wife, Sophia
Nikolaievna, Countess de Torby, elder dau of Prince Nikolaus Wilhelm
of Nassau, by his morganatic wife Countess Natalia von Merenberg [nee
Pushkin]; and Miss Tanya Nation. Lord Nicholas Hamilton was best man.
The reception was held at St James's Palace.
Is the bride any relation to Tally Westminster?
Tam
My post probably isn't too clear. Somewhat cluttered with ancestors.
The bride groom is in fact a nephew of Tally Westminster. The
Duchesses of Abercorn and Westminster are sisters.

--
Shinjinee
2004-05-12 04:38:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grrarrggh
Is the bride any relation to Tally Westminster?
Tam
No, Tanya Nation's husband is nephew to Tally Westminster, being the
elder son of her eldest sister (Tally is the youngest daughter). And
the 5th Duke of Abercorn is the son of Lady Mary Crichton, who is the
daughter of Lady Mary Cavendish Grosvenor, daughter of the 1st Duke of
Westminster by his 2nd marriage

1st Duke -> Lady Mary Cavendish md Earl of Erne -> Lady Mary Crichton
md 4th Duke of Abercorn -> 5th Duke of Abercorn md Alexandra Phillipps
-> Marquess of Abercorn md Tanya Nation

1st Duke -> Lord Edward Grosvenor md Lady N Crichton (whose brother
Lord Erne md her husband's sister] -> Robert Grosvenor, became Lord
Robert Grosvenor, then 5th Duke of Westminster -> 6th Duke of
Westminster md Natalia Phillipps -> issue

Lady Mary Crichton, Duchess of Abercorn and the 5th Duke of
Westminster were thus double first cousins.

Their children - the 5th Duke of Abercorn and the 6th Duke of
Westminster - were thus double second cousins - who also happened to
marry sisters (daughters of the same parents).

Their children - the Marquess of Abercorn and his Grosvenor cousins
including Lady Tamara Grosvenor who is engaged to marry Edward van
Cutsem - are first cousins maternally, and also double third cousins.

Hope that makes things clear.

Shinjinee
Johan Andersson
2004-05-12 17:32:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Shinjinee
Post by Grrarrggh
Is the bride any relation to Tally Westminster?
Tam
No, Tanya Nation's husband is nephew to Tally Westminster, being the
elder son of her eldest sister (Tally is the youngest daughter). And
the 5th Duke of Abercorn is the son of Lady Mary Crichton, who is the
daughter of Lady Mary Cavendish Grosvenor, daughter of the 1st Duke of
Westminster by his 2nd marriage
1st Duke -> Lady Mary Cavendish md Earl of Erne -> Lady Mary Crichton
md 4th Duke of Abercorn -> 5th Duke of Abercorn md Alexandra Phillipps
-> Marquess of Abercorn md Tanya Nation
1st Duke -> Lord Edward Grosvenor md Lady N Crichton (whose brother
Lord Erne md her husband's sister] -> Robert Grosvenor, became Lord
Robert Grosvenor, then 5th Duke of Westminster -> 6th Duke of
Westminster md Natalia Phillipps -> issue
Lord Edward Grosvenor (1888-1961) did not marry Lady Mabel Crichton, he
married Lady Dorothy Browne, who's father was the 5th Earl of Kenmare. You
have him mixed up with his older brother Lord Hugh William Grosvenor
(1884-killed 1914) married 1906 Lady Mabel Crichton (1882-1944) her father
was the 4th Earl Erne. They was the father of the above 5th Duke of
Westminster (Robert Grosvenor). Lady Mabel's brother, Henry Crichton,
Viscount Crichton married Lady Mary Grosvenor (1883-1959) sister of Lord
Hugh William and Lord Edward.
But Henry Crichton, Viscount Crichton did never succed to the title of Earl
Erne, he was killed in WWI in October 1914. His son, John succeded to the
peerage on the death of his grandfather, 4th Earl Erne 2 months later in
December 1914.

//Johan
Post by Shinjinee
Lady Mary Crichton, Duchess of Abercorn and the 5th Duke of
Westminster were thus double first cousins.
Their children - the 5th Duke of Abercorn and the 6th Duke of
Westminster - were thus double second cousins - who also happened to
marry sisters (daughters of the same parents).
Their children - the Marquess of Abercorn and his Grosvenor cousins
including Lady Tamara Grosvenor who is engaged to marry Edward van
Cutsem - are first cousins maternally, and also double third cousins.
Hope that makes things clear.
Shinjinee
Shinjinee
2004-05-13 07:29:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by Johan Andersson
Post by Shinjinee
No, Tanya Nation's husband is nephew to Tally Westminster, being the
elder son of her eldest sister (Tally is the youngest daughter). And
the 5th Duke of Abercorn is the son of Lady Mary Crichton, who is the
daughter of Lady Mary Cavendish Grosvenor, daughter of the 1st Duke of
Westminster by his 2nd marriage
1st Duke -> Lady Mary Cavendish md Earl of Erne -> Lady Mary Crichton
md 4th Duke of Abercorn -> 5th Duke of Abercorn md Alexandra Phillipps
-> Marquess of Abercorn md Tanya Nation
[Corrected version]

1st Duke -> Lady Mary Cavendish md 1903 Viscount Crichton (ka 31 1914
- see below), son and heir of the 4th Earl of Erne -> Lady Mary
Crichton md 1928 Marquess of Hamilton, who succ as 4th Duke of
Abercorn in 1954 -> 5th Duke of Abercorn (b. 1934) [succ his father
1979] md 1966 (as Marquess of Hamilton) Alexandra Phillips, surname
spelling corrected -> James, Marquess of Hamilton (b. 1969) md 2004
Miss Tanya Nation

NB - Viscount Crichton died the day after his brother-in-law, Lord
Hugh Grosvenor (died 30 Oct 1914). Not a happy period in either
family.
Post by Johan Andersson
Post by Shinjinee
1st Duke -> Lord Edward Grosvenor md Lady N Crichton (whose brother
Lord Erne md her husband's sister] -> Robert Grosvenor, became Lord
Robert Grosvenor, then 5th Duke of Westminster -> 6th Duke of
Westminster md Natalia Phillipps -> issue
Corrected version

1st Duke -> Lord Hugh William Grosvenor (1884 - ka 30 Oct 1914) md
1906 Lady Mabel Florence Mary Crichton (1882-1944; 2 sons -> [yr son]
Robert Grosvenor (1910-1979) succ his brother as 5th Duke of
Westminster (25 Feb 1967); md 1946 Hon. Violet Lyttleton (d. 1987) ->
Gerald Grosvenor (b. 22 Dec 1951), became Earl Grosvenor (25 Feb 1967
as heir apparent); succ his father 19 Dec 179; md 7 Oct 1978 Natalia
Phillips, yr sister of Alexandra, Dss of Abercorn (wife of his cousin
Lord Hamilton, later the 5th Duke of Abercorn); issue 1 son and 3
daus.

Interesting that the Dukes of Abercorn and Westminster succeeded their
fathers in the same year - 1979. Their fathers were first cousins
doubly; they were themselves second cousins (and married to sisters at
the time of their accession).
Post by Johan Andersson
Lord Edward Grosvenor (1888-1961) did not marry Lady Mabel Crichton, he
married Lady Dorothy Browne, who's father was the 5th Earl of Kenmare. You
have him mixed up with his older brother Lord Hugh William Grosvenor
(1884-killed 1914) married 1906 Lady Mabel Crichton (1882-1944) her father
was the 4th Earl Erne. They was the father of the above 5th Duke of
Westminster (Robert Grosvenor). Lady Mabel's brother, Henry Crichton,
Viscount Crichton married Lady Mary Grosvenor (1883-1959) sister of Lord
Hugh William and Lord Edward.
But Henry Crichton, Viscount Crichton did never succed to the title of Earl
Erne, he was killed in WWI in October 1914. His son, John succeded to the
peerage on the death of his grandfather, 4th Earl Erne 2 months later in
December 1914.
//Johan
Johann, you are right on all of the above.

I was writing the post, and could not remember some of the details, so
was about to check Theroff etc. My brother required the computer (for
far too long) suddenly, and apparently decided to be helpful and post
all my messages, complete and otherwise. [I have to see what has
happened to my other messages on other sites].

I have corrected the details above and below, but the relationship
between Lord Hamilton (and the new Lady Hamilton) and the Duchess of
Westminster is the same (Lord Hamilton is Tally Westminster's nephew),
and the Dukes are still double second cousins through these marriages.
There may be other connections, not explored by me - and of course,
we don't know the ancestry of Lady Hamilton (the former Tanya Nation).

Westminster D
http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/westminster.html

[Children of the 1st Duke by his 2nd wife and 2nd cousin, Hon.
Katherine Caroline Cavendish, a daughter of the 2nd Baron Chesham.
This was a title created for the 4th son of the 1st Earl of
Burlington, himself previously Lord George Cavendish, 3rd yr son of
the 4th Duke of Devonshire. Katherine, Duchess of Devonshire was also
descended via her mother from the 5th Duke of Devonshire, and thus was
related several ways to the subsequent dukes]

[their 1st child and 1st daughter; adapted slightly from Theroff]
9a) Lady Mary Cavendish Grosvenor (London 12 May 1883-14 Jan 1959);
m.1st London 10 Jun 1903 Henry William Crichton, Viscount Crichton (30
Sep 1872-k.a.31 Oct 1914) [by whom issue, of whom the son the 5th Earl
of Erne (1907-1940) was also ka 23 May 1940, and is father of the
present 6th Earl of Erne]; m.2d 18 Apr 1918 Hon Algernon Francis
Stanley (8 Jan 1874-10 Feb 1962) a son presumably of the 16th Earl of
Derby.

10a) Lord Hugh William Grosvenor(London 6 Apr 1884-k.a.30 Oct 1914);
m.London 21 Apr 1906 Lady Mabel Florence Mary Crichton (31 Mar 1882-15
Jul 1944) [sister of Viscount Crichton who had md Lady Mary in 1903.
They were parents of the 4th and 5th Dukes - future 4th Duke b 1907;
future 5th Duke b 1910.


Abercorn D
http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/abercorn.html

4c) JAMES Edward, 4th Duke of Abercorn, etc (London 29 Feb 1904-Omagh
4 Jun 1979); m.London 9 Feb 1928 Lady Mary Crichton (8 Jul 1905-Barons
Court 2 Feb 1990) [daughter of Viscount Crichton and Lady Mary
Cavendish Grosvenor; sister of the 5th Earl of Erne (ka 1940)]

Lady Mary Crichton, Duchess of Abercorn was doubly first cousin of the
5th Duke of Westminster (whose son the 6th Duke is married to the
maternal aunt of the Marquess of Abercorn - Lady Mary's grandson]

[Elder son of the 4th Duke of Abercorn & Lady Mary Crichton]

2d) JAMES, 5th Duke of Abercorn, etc (b.London 4 Jul 1934);
m.Westminster Abbey 20 Oct 1966 Alexandra Phillips (b.Tuscon, Arizona
27 Feb 1946; see Russia)

[Elder son of the 5th Duke of Abercorn & Alexandra "Sasha" Phillips]

1e) James Harold Charles, Marquess of Hamilton (b.London 19 Aug 1969);
m.Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, London 7 May 2004 Tanya Nation



- Shinjinee
Johan Andersson
2004-05-13 16:20:53 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Some more family realtions for the Duke of Abercorn and the Duke of
Westminster

John Leveson-Gower, 1st Earl Gower -> Granville Leveson-Gower, 1st Marquess
of Stafford -> George Leveson-Gower, 1st Duke of Sutherland -> Lady
Elizabeth Leveson-Gower -> Hugh Grosvenor, 1st Duke of Wesminster -> Lord
Hugh William Grosvenor -> Robert Grosvenor, 5th Duke of Westminster ->
Gerald Grosvenor, 6th Duke of Westminster

John Leveson-Gower, 1st Earl Gower -> Lady Gertrude Leveson-Gower -> Francis
Russell, Marquess of Tavistock -> John Russell, 6th Duke of Bedford -> Lady
Louisa Russell -> James Hamilton, 2nd Duke of Abercorn -> James Hamilton,
3rd Duke of Abercorn -> James Hamilton, 4th Duke of Abercorn -> James
Hamilton, 5th Duke of Abercorn

William, 2nd Baron Chesham -> Hon. Catherine-Caroline Cavendish -> Lady Mary
Grosvenor -> Lady Mary Crichton -> James Hamilton, 5th Duke of Abercorn

William, 2nd Baron Chesham -> Hon. Mary Cavendish -> John Lyttelton, 9th
Viscount Cobham -> Hon. Viola Lyttelton -> Gerald Grosvenor, 6th Duke of
Westminster

Edward Lascelles, 1st Earl of Harewood -> Henry Lascelles, 2nd Earl fo
Harewood -> Hon. William Lascelles -> Henrietta Lascelles -> Hon.
Catherine-Caroline Cavendish -> Lord Hugh William Grosvenor -> Robert
Grosvenor, 5th Duke of Westminster -> Gerald Grosvenor, 6th Duke of
Westminster

Edward Lascelles, 1st Earl of Harewood -> Lady Frances Lascelles -> Hon.
Harriet Douglas -> James Hamilton, 1st Duke of Abercorn -> James Hamilton,
2nd Duke of Abercorn -> James Hamilton, 3rd Duke of Abercorn -> James
Hamilton, 4th Duke of Abercorn -> James Hamilton, 5th Duke of Abercorn

Henry Paget, 1st Earl of Uxbridge -> Henry Paget, 1st Marquess of
Anglesey -> Lady Caroline Paget -> Lady Cecilia Gordon-Lennox -> Lady
Rosalind Bingham -> James Hamilton, 4th Duke of Abercorn -> James Hamilton,
5th Duke of Abercorn

Henry Paget, 1st Earl of Uxbridge -> Lady Charlotte Paget -> William Cole,
3rd Earl of Enniskillen -> Lady Florence Cole -> Lady Mabel Crichton ->
Robert Grosvenor, 5th Duke of Westminster -> Gerald Grosvenor, 6th Duke of
Westminster
Post by Shinjinee
Post by Johan Andersson
Post by Shinjinee
No, Tanya Nation's husband is nephew to Tally Westminster, being the
elder son of her eldest sister (Tally is the youngest daughter). And
the 5th Duke of Abercorn is the son of Lady Mary Crichton, who is the
daughter of Lady Mary Cavendish Grosvenor, daughter of the 1st Duke of
Westminster by his 2nd marriage
1st Duke -> Lady Mary Cavendish md Earl of Erne -> Lady Mary Crichton
md 4th Duke of Abercorn -> 5th Duke of Abercorn md Alexandra Phillipps
-> Marquess of Abercorn md Tanya Nation
[Corrected version]
1st Duke -> Lady Mary Cavendish md 1903 Viscount Crichton (ka 31 1914
- see below), son and heir of the 4th Earl of Erne -> Lady Mary
Crichton md 1928 Marquess of Hamilton, who succ as 4th Duke of
Abercorn in 1954 -> 5th Duke of Abercorn (b. 1934) [succ his father
1979] md 1966 (as Marquess of Hamilton) Alexandra Phillips, surname
spelling corrected -> James, Marquess of Hamilton (b. 1969) md 2004
Miss Tanya Nation
NB - Viscount Crichton died the day after his brother-in-law, Lord
Hugh Grosvenor (died 30 Oct 1914). Not a happy period in either
family.
Post by Johan Andersson
Post by Shinjinee
1st Duke -> Lord Edward Grosvenor md Lady N Crichton (whose brother
Lord Erne md her husband's sister] -> Robert Grosvenor, became Lord
Robert Grosvenor, then 5th Duke of Westminster -> 6th Duke of
Westminster md Natalia Phillipps -> issue
Corrected version
1st Duke -> Lord Hugh William Grosvenor (1884 - ka 30 Oct 1914) md
1906 Lady Mabel Florence Mary Crichton (1882-1944; 2 sons -> [yr son]
Robert Grosvenor (1910-1979) succ his brother as 5th Duke of
Westminster (25 Feb 1967); md 1946 Hon. Violet Lyttleton (d. 1987) ->
Gerald Grosvenor (b. 22 Dec 1951), became Earl Grosvenor (25 Feb 1967
as heir apparent); succ his father 19 Dec 179; md 7 Oct 1978 Natalia
Phillips, yr sister of Alexandra, Dss of Abercorn (wife of his cousin
Lord Hamilton, later the 5th Duke of Abercorn); issue 1 son and 3
daus.
Interesting that the Dukes of Abercorn and Westminster succeeded their
fathers in the same year - 1979. Their fathers were first cousins
doubly; they were themselves second cousins (and married to sisters at
the time of their accession).
Post by Johan Andersson
Lord Edward Grosvenor (1888-1961) did not marry Lady Mabel Crichton, he
married Lady Dorothy Browne, who's father was the 5th Earl of Kenmare. You
have him mixed up with his older brother Lord Hugh William Grosvenor
(1884-killed 1914) married 1906 Lady Mabel Crichton (1882-1944) her father
was the 4th Earl Erne. They was the father of the above 5th Duke of
Westminster (Robert Grosvenor). Lady Mabel's brother, Henry Crichton,
Viscount Crichton married Lady Mary Grosvenor (1883-1959) sister of Lord
Hugh William and Lord Edward.
But Henry Crichton, Viscount Crichton did never succed to the title of Earl
Erne, he was killed in WWI in October 1914. His son, John succeded to the
peerage on the death of his grandfather, 4th Earl Erne 2 months later in
December 1914.
//Johan
Johann, you are right on all of the above.
I was writing the post, and could not remember some of the details, so
was about to check Theroff etc. My brother required the computer (for
far too long) suddenly, and apparently decided to be helpful and post
all my messages, complete and otherwise. [I have to see what has
happened to my other messages on other sites].
I have corrected the details above and below, but the relationship
between Lord Hamilton (and the new Lady Hamilton) and the Duchess of
Westminster is the same (Lord Hamilton is Tally Westminster's nephew),
and the Dukes are still double second cousins through these marriages.
There may be other connections, not explored by me - and of course,
we don't know the ancestry of Lady Hamilton (the former Tanya Nation).
Westminster D
http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/westminster.html
[Children of the 1st Duke by his 2nd wife and 2nd cousin, Hon.
Katherine Caroline Cavendish, a daughter of the 2nd Baron Chesham.
This was a title created for the 4th son of the 1st Earl of
Burlington, himself previously Lord George Cavendish, 3rd yr son of
the 4th Duke of Devonshire. Katherine, Duchess of Devonshire was also
descended via her mother from the 5th Duke of Devonshire, and thus was
related several ways to the subsequent dukes]
[their 1st child and 1st daughter; adapted slightly from Theroff]
9a) Lady Mary Cavendish Grosvenor (London 12 May 1883-14 Jan 1959);
m.1st London 10 Jun 1903 Henry William Crichton, Viscount Crichton (30
Sep 1872-k.a.31 Oct 1914) [by whom issue, of whom the son the 5th Earl
of Erne (1907-1940) was also ka 23 May 1940, and is father of the
present 6th Earl of Erne]; m.2d 18 Apr 1918 Hon Algernon Francis
Stanley (8 Jan 1874-10 Feb 1962) a son presumably of the 16th Earl of
Derby.
10a) Lord Hugh William Grosvenor(London 6 Apr 1884-k.a.30 Oct 1914);
m.London 21 Apr 1906 Lady Mabel Florence Mary Crichton (31 Mar 1882-15
Jul 1944) [sister of Viscount Crichton who had md Lady Mary in 1903.
They were parents of the 4th and 5th Dukes - future 4th Duke b 1907;
future 5th Duke b 1910.
Abercorn D
http://pages.prodigy.net/ptheroff/gotha/abercorn.html
4c) JAMES Edward, 4th Duke of Abercorn, etc (London 29 Feb 1904-Omagh
4 Jun 1979); m.London 9 Feb 1928 Lady Mary Crichton (8 Jul 1905-Barons
Court 2 Feb 1990) [daughter of Viscount Crichton and Lady Mary
Cavendish Grosvenor; sister of the 5th Earl of Erne (ka 1940)]
Lady Mary Crichton, Duchess of Abercorn was doubly first cousin of the
5th Duke of Westminster (whose son the 6th Duke is married to the
maternal aunt of the Marquess of Abercorn - Lady Mary's grandson]
[Elder son of the 4th Duke of Abercorn & Lady Mary Crichton]
2d) JAMES, 5th Duke of Abercorn, etc (b.London 4 Jul 1934);
m.Westminster Abbey 20 Oct 1966 Alexandra Phillips (b.Tuscon, Arizona
27 Feb 1946; see Russia)
[Elder son of the 5th Duke of Abercorn & Alexandra "Sasha" Phillips]
1e) James Harold Charles, Marquess of Hamilton (b.London 19 Aug 1969);
m.Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, London 7 May 2004 Tanya Nation
- Shinjinee
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-11 23:11:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisabet Bartram
Post by Michael Rhodes
The marriage took place at the Guards Chapel, Wellington Barracks, 7
May, 2004, between James Harold Charles Hamilton, styled Marquess of
Hamilton (b. 19 Aug, 1969), son and heir of the 5th Duke of Abercorn,
KG, (b. 1934), by his wife the former Alexandra Phillips, daughter of
the late Lt-Col Harold Pedro Joseph Phillips, FRGS, by his wife,
Georgina Wernher [b. 1919], daughter of Sir Harold Augustus Wernher,
GCVO, TD [1893-1973], of Luton Hoo, by his wife, the Lady Anastasia
[Zia] Wernher, CBE, [nee de Torby], elder daughter of Grand Duke
Mikhail of Russia [1861-1929], by his morganatic wife, Sophia
Nikolaievna, Countess de Torby, elder dau of Prince Nikolaus Wilhelm
of Nassau, by his morganatic wife Countess Natalia von Merenberg [nee
Pushkin]; and Miss Tanya Nation. Lord Nicholas Hamilton was best man.
The reception was held at St James's Palace.
Do you have any additional information about the bride Miss Tanya
Nation? Like for example when was she born, where, does she have
English roots or maybe Russian ( just thinking about her name ).
Regards, Elisabet
Richard Kay in the Daily Mail says the Marchioness is a daughter of
_American businessman Douglas Nation_, if that's any help. Her
previous boyfriend was Viscount Hinchingbrooke, heir to the Earl of
Sandwich. Lord Hamilton's sister met Tanya whilst she was still going
out with Luke Hinchingbrooke, and although Lord Hamilton was also in a
relationship the matchmaker (Lady Sophie) told him there and then that
he would marry Tanya - because they were ideal for each other.
--

Michael (please delete the x to e-mail me)
*******************************************
Pablo
2004-05-12 16:28:28 UTC
Permalink
Isn't HRH The Prince of Wales godfather to Lord Hamilton? Did he, or
any other members of the Royal family attend? I wasn't invited
unfortunately,
Pablo xx
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-13 02:18:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
Isn't HRH The Prince of Wales godfather to Lord Hamilton? Did he, or
any other members of the Royal family attend? I wasn't invited
unfortunately,
Pablo xx
No royal guests were mentioned in the report of the nutpials. HRHs are
usually given a mention if they were present. The reception at St
James's Palace was probably because of the Duke's association with the
court.

-- Michael.
Sacha
2004-05-13 08:25:14 UTC
Permalink
Michael Rhodes13/5/04 3:18
***@yahoo.co.uk4e5e1d66.0405121818.4bf858ef@posting.google
.com
Post by Michael Rhodes
Post by Pablo
Isn't HRH The Prince of Wales godfather to Lord Hamilton? Did he, or
any other members of the Royal family attend? I wasn't invited
unfortunately,
Pablo xx
No royal guests were mentioned in the report of the nutpials. HRHs are
usually given a mention if they were present. The reception at St
James's Palace was probably because of the Duke's association with the
court.
-- Michael.
Absolutely correct. We once attended a wedding reception there, though no
royalty was present. And at one time (I don't know if it's still the norm)
newspapers such as The Times and The Daily Telegraph sent out a form to
those who announced their engagements in those papers. The form asked for
details of the clergy officiating at the wedding, time, date, place, names
of best man, attendants AND if any members of the royal family were expected
to attend! ;-)
--
Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)
Grrarrggh
2004-05-13 08:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sacha
Absolutely correct. We once attended a wedding reception there, though no
royalty was present. And at one time (I don't know if it's still the norm)
newspapers such as The Times and The Daily Telegraph sent out a form to
those who announced their engagements in those papers. The form asked for
details of the clergy officiating at the wedding, time, date, place, names
of best man, attendants AND if any members of the royal family were expected
to attend! ;-)
--
Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)
Think they would take kindly to a nice lie about the Queen and Prince Harry
attending the wedding? ;)

Tam
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-13 23:12:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Grrarrggh
Post by Sacha
Absolutely correct. We once attended a wedding reception there, though no
royalty was present. And at one time (I don't know if it's still the norm)
newspapers such as The Times and The Daily Telegraph sent out a form to
those who announced their engagements in those papers. The form asked for
details of the clergy officiating at the wedding, time, date, place, names
of best man, attendants AND if any members of the royal family were expected
to attend! ;-)
--
Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)
Think they would take kindly to a nice lie about the Queen and Prince Harry
attending the wedding? ;)
Tam
This has got me wondering what happened to royals attending society
weddings. In the 50s, 60s, & 70s the Queen and Queen Mother frequently
attended society weddings in London (of persons not necessarily
connected to the Royal Family or Court). The Queen seems to have tired
of them in recent years.

-- Michael.
Grrarrggh
2004-05-14 02:18:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sacha
Post by Grrarrggh
Post by Sacha
Absolutely correct. We once attended a wedding reception there, though no
royalty was present. And at one time (I don't know if it's still the
norm)
Post by Grrarrggh
Post by Sacha
newspapers such as The Times and The Daily Telegraph sent out a form to
those who announced their engagements in those papers. The form asked for
details of the clergy officiating at the wedding, time, date, place, names
of best man, attendants AND if any members of the royal family were
expected
Post by Grrarrggh
Post by Sacha
to attend! ;-)
--
Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)
Think they would take kindly to a nice lie about the Queen and Prince Harry
attending the wedding? ;)
Tam
This has got me wondering what happened to royals attending society
weddings. In the 50s, 60s, & 70s the Queen and Queen Mother frequently
attended society weddings in London (of persons not necessarily
connected to the Royal Family or Court). The Queen seems to have tired
of them in recent years.
-- Michael.
My guess is that it is a mix of A) trying to distance the RF from aristos at
large and B) the Queen not having as much time/energy for weddings of those she
doesn't know well.

Tam
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-13 02:22:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pablo
Isn't HRH The Prince of Wales godfather to Lord Hamilton? Did he, or
any other members of the Royal family attend? I wasn't invited
unfortunately,
Pablo xx
No royal guests were mentioned in the report of the nutpials. HRHs are
usually given a mention if they were present. The reception at St
James's Palace was probably because of the Duke's association with the
court.

-- Michael.
Elisabet Bartram
2004-05-12 17:06:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Rhodes
Richard Kay in the Daily Mail says the Marchioness is a daughter of
_American businessman Douglas Nation_, if that's any help. Her
previous boyfriend was Viscount Hinchingbrooke, heir to the Earl of
Sandwich. Lord Hamilton's sister met Tanya whilst she was still going
out with Luke Hinchingbrooke, and although Lord Hamilton was also in a
relationship the matchmaker (Lady Sophie) told him there and then that
he would marry Tanya - because they were ideal for each other.
Thank you! Sounds interesting - complicated though, but interesting. :)

Rgds, E.
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-13 02:29:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisabet Bartram
Post by Michael Rhodes
Richard Kay in the Daily Mail says the Marchioness is a daughter of
_American businessman Douglas Nation_, if that's any help. Her
previous boyfriend was Viscount Hinchingbrooke, heir to the Earl of
Sandwich. Lord Hamilton's sister met Tanya whilst she was still going
out with Luke Hinchingbrooke, and although Lord Hamilton was also in a
relationship the matchmaker (Lady Sophie) told him there and then that
he would marry Tanya - because they were ideal for each other.
Thank you! Sounds interesting - complicated though, but interesting. :)
Rgds, E.
Richard Kay quotes Tanya thus: "I was once going to be a Countess, but
now I'm going to be a duchess."

-- Michael
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-13 02:32:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by Elisabet Bartram
Post by Michael Rhodes
Richard Kay in the Daily Mail says the Marchioness is a daughter of
_American businessman Douglas Nation_, if that's any help. Her
previous boyfriend was Viscount Hinchingbrooke, heir to the Earl of
Sandwich. Lord Hamilton's sister met Tanya whilst she was still going
out with Luke Hinchingbrooke, and although Lord Hamilton was also in a
relationship the matchmaker (Lady Sophie) told him there and then that
he would marry Tanya - because they were ideal for each other.
Thank you! Sounds interesting - complicated though, but interesting. :)
Rgds, E.
Richard Kay quotes Tanya thus: "I was once going to be a Countess, but
now I'm going to be a duchess."

-- Michael
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-12 14:01:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Rhodes
The marriage took place, 1 May, 2004, between Stephen Newman, eldest
son of Mr & Mrs John Newman, of Ringwood Hampshire, & Samantha Louise
(b. 1969), former wife of her cousin Wensley Grosvenor Haydon-Baillie,
formerly of Wentworth Woodhouse, South Yorkshire, & daughter of John
William Brian Dyke Acland (b. 1942), scion of the Acland Baronets of
Columb-St John, by his wife, Georgina Scarborough.
Samantha Acland married firstly in the summer of 1994, her cousin
Wensley Haydon-Baillie, multi-millionaire owner of the 360 room
mansion at Wentworth Woodhouse, South Yorkshire. Haydon-Baillie's
mother Edith Murray-Lee, and Samantha's grandmother, Beatrice, were
sisters, the daughters of a Warwickshire landowner William WILLES, who
died in 1955. Haydon-Baillie had previously been romantically linked
with Lord Montagu of Beaulieu's daughter, Mary.

Haydon-Baillie has since sold Wentworth Woodhouse (former home of the
Earls Fitzwilliam and in the Guinness Book of Records as the stately
home in Britain with the longest facade) and his millions are somewhat
depleted.

The new Mrs Newman has no issue from her first marriage, methinks.
Post by Michael Rhodes
--Michael Rhodes (please delete the x to e-mail me)
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-14 01:34:18 UTC
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The marriage took place at Salzburg, 8 May, 2004, between Mr Sven Ley,
only son of Wolfgang Ley and the late Margaretha Ley, of Salzburg,
Austria, and Miss Zoe Appleyard-List, (b. 1973), only child of Capt
Jonathan Cecil Appleyard-List, CBE, RN, and the Hon Caroline Elizabeth
Appleyard-List, (b. 1935), of Pirbright, Surrey.

Miss Appleyard-List is a granddaughter maternally of the (10th)
Baroness Wharton, a niece of the (11th) Baroness Wharton, and first
cousin of the 11th Baron Wharton.
Post by Michael Rhodes
--Michael Rhodes (please delete the x to e-mail me)
Kelly
2004-05-14 18:21:15 UTC
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"Michael Rhodes" wrote ...
Post by Michael Rhodes
Miss Appleyard-List is a granddaughter maternally of the (10th)
Baroness Wharton, a niece of the (11th) Baroness Wharton, and first
cousin of the 11th Baron Wharton.
10th, 11th, and 11th?

Kelly
--
What we see depends mainly on what we look for.
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-14 23:02:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kelly
"Michael Rhodes" wrote ...
Post by Michael Rhodes
Miss Appleyard-List is a granddaughter maternally of the (10th)
Baroness Wharton, a niece of the (11th) Baroness Wharton, and first
cousin of the 11th Baron Wharton.
10th, 11th, and 11th?
Kelly
Sorry, 10th, 11th, 12th - - -
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-18 00:32:34 UTC
Permalink
The marriage took place, 15 May, 2004, at the Church of St Mary the
Virgin, Glynde, between Robert Barksfield, eldest son of Mr & Mrs Ron
Barksfield, of Frieth, & the Hon Saracha Mary Brand (b. 1973), only
daughter of the 6th Viscount Hampden (b. 1937), by his first wife, the
former Caroline Fiona Proby (of the Proby Baronets, and descended in
the male line from Colonel Douglas James Hamilton, a nephew of the 1st
Duke of Abercorn, who assumed the suename of Proby by Royal Licence in
1904).

The bride is also closely related to Sarah Duchess of York.

--

Michael Rhodes (please delete the x to e-mail me)
**************************************************
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-27 01:29:12 UTC
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The marriage took place at Kildare Cathedral, Ireland, 22 May, 2004,
between Mr John E. Gardiner, elder son of Mr & Mrs Tony Gardiner, of
Thorp Arch, Yorkshire, & Miss Olivia Mirabel Musgrave (b. 1958),
eldest daughter of Sir Richard James Musgrave, 7th Baronet
(1922-2000), and Lady Musgrave.

--Michael Rhodes (please delete the x to e-mail me)
***************************************************
Michael Rhodes
2004-05-28 00:48:00 UTC
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The marriage took place, 22 May, 2004, at St James the Less, Pimlico,
between Stephen J. Dalton, son of the Rev. Tod Dalton and Mrs Dalton,
& Megan A.
Mackeson-Sandbach, yst daughter of Mr & Mrs Ian Mackeson-Sanbach, of
that landed family. The father of the bridegroom officiated.

The bride is a niece of the Marchioness of Linlithgow, and a
great-granddaughter of Maj-Gen Arthur Edmund Sandbach, DSO, CB
(1859-1928), by his wife the Hon Ina Douglas-Pennant, fifth daughter
of the 2nd Baron Penrhyn.
Post by Michael Rhodes
--Michael Rhodes (please delete the x to e-mail me)
***************************************************
Torkel Nybakk Kvaal
2004-06-01 12:36:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Rhodes
The marriage took place at Kildare Cathedral, Ireland, 22 May, 2004,
between Mr John E. Gardiner, elder son of Mr & Mrs Tony Gardiner, of
Thorp Arch, Yorkshire, & Miss Olivia Mirabel Musgrave (b. 1958),
eldest daughter of Sir Richard James Musgrave, 7th Baronet
(1922-2000), and Lady Musgrave.
Do you know whether the groom is related to Princess Muna of Jordan (née
Antoinette Gardiner), daughter of Colonel Waltel Percy Gardiner. He is btw
still alive, and I believe they both attended the recent wedding of Crown
Prince Hamzah of Jordan.

Regards
Torkel NK

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