: On Dec 21, 7:02 pm, ***@btinternet.com wrote:
:> > On Dec 21, 2:15 pm, ***@btinternet.com wrote:
:> > > Here is the alleged pedigree of David Drew Howe, on which he
:> > > apparently bases his claim to be 'King of Mann'; it is taken from his
:> > > website, so the names and dates are his own:
:> > > 1. Thomas Stanley d 1504
:> > > 2. George Stanley d 1497
:> > > 3. Jane Stanley 1485-1557
:> > > 4. Edmund, 1st Baron Sheffield 1521-1549
:> > > 5. John, 2nd Baron Sheffield 1538-1568
:> > > 6. Edmund, 1st Earl of Mulgrave 1565-1646
:> > > 7. Frances Sheffield 1585-1615
:> > > 8. Sir Col. (sic) William Fairfax 1609-1644
:> > > 9. Isabella Fairfax 1637-1691
:> > > 10. William Bladen 1673-1718
:> > > 11. Anne Bladen 1696-1775
:> > > 12. Rebecca Tasker 1724-1822
:> > > 13. Benjamin Tasker Dulany 1752-1811
:> > > 14. John Peyton Dulaney (sic) 1787-1878
:> > > 15. Julia Ann Bladen Dulaney 1816-1865
:> > > 16. John Peyton Debutts 1837-1912
:> > > 17. Henry Grafton Debutts 1876-1953
:> > > 18. James Myers Debutts 1926-1970
:> > > 19. Janice Lee Debutts married David Howe
:> > > 20. David Howe - [the clown in question]
:> > Comments on the alleged pedigree (Part Two):
:> > > 6. Edmund, 1st Earl of Mulgrave 1565-1646
:> > Returning to Howe's alleged pedigree, we come to the 1st Earl of
:> > Mulgrave. Let us put aside Howe's 'gender-blind' succession laws -
:> > as he seems to have done when it suited him - and consider Edmund as
:> > the heir general of Jane Stanley; from here on we will consider heirs-
:> > general rather than 'gender-blind' heirs, since we know that the
:> > latter are not to be found amongst Edmund's descendants. He married
:> > 1stly Ursula Tyrwhitt "before 13 November 1581" (ODNB) and 2ndly
:> > in 1619, Mariana Irwin. By his first marriage he had 6 sons who all
:> > died before their father, and two daughters, and by his second
:> > marriage he had a further five children. From the first marriage he
:> > had a son and heir:
:> > 7. Sir John Sheffield (d 1614), married Grizel Anderson. They had a
:> > son and a daughter:
:> Comments (part three):
:> > 7. Frances Sheffield 1585-1615
:> *Not an heiress*. As noted above, Frances had several brothers, one
:> of whose issue inherited the Mulgrave title and others in whom
:> the genealogical representation of the family is vested. This,
:> therefore, is Howe's third logical fallacy. Frances married Sir
:> Philip Fairfax (d 1613) and had two sons; the elder died without
:> issue, and the younger was:
:> > 8. Sir Col. (sic) William Fairfax 1609-1644
:> Howe commits a solecism in referring to Fairfax as he does above; it
:> should be "Col. Sir William" - unless Howe thinks his Christian-name
:> was Col. At least he was his mother's heir. According to his ODNB
:> article he married Frances Chaloner in 1629.
:> It is interesting to note that, according to Banks's Extinct and
:> Dormant Peerages (1817), pp 32-34, when the 2nd Duke of Buckingham
:> & Normanby died, the Fairfaxes (inter alia) put in a claim on the
:> Sheffield estates - however, they acknowledged they were ***not the
:> heirs***. Instead, the Grace family of Ireland succeeded to the
:> property that the 1st Duke hadn't devised by will, i.e. they were
:> the genealogical heirs of Edmund Sheffield, 1st Earl of Mulgrave,
:> as detailed above.
:> Sir William Fairfax had two sons and two daughters. The descendants
:> of his elder son inherited the family estates at Steeton, Yorks, and
:> were still there well into the 19th century (Burke's Landed Gentry,
:> 1875, p 415, Fairfax of Steeton); they have a better genealogical
:> claim to be heirs of Frances Sheffield than Howe does.
:> > 9. Isabella Fairfax 1637-1691
:> *Not an heiress*. Married Nathaniel Bladen of Hemsworth, Yorkshire.
:> > 10. William Bladen 1673-1718
:> For what it is worth, the ODNB says William Bladen's birthdate was
:> 1670 (ODNB, sub Thomas Bladen). He is the emigrant to America.
:> He seems to have been his mother's first son. He married twice and
:> had issue. But was Anne Bladen (afterwards Tasker), through whom
:> Howe stakes his claim, William Bladen's heir?
:> No, because he left sons whose issue is extant. For instance, his
:> son Thomas had a daughter, who would take precedence over her aunt
:> in any claims of heirship from the Fairfaxes.
: (Part 4)
:> 11. Anne Bladen 1696-1775
: *Not an heiress*. She married Benjamin Tasker (d 1768) (ODNB, sub
: Thomas Bladen and Daniel Dulany). They had, inter alia, a son,
: Benjamin Tasker the younger (d 1767), sometime acting Governor of
: Maryland, and several daughters.
:> 12. Rebecca Tasker 1724-1822
: She was the *second* of her parents' daughters, and thus it is unclear
: whether she was her parents' heir (assuming that her brother did not
: leave issue). In 1749 married Daniel Dulany (1722-1797), by whom she
: is said to have had two sons and one daughter (ODNB, sub Daniel
: Dulany). Much of Dulany's property was confiscated as a result of his
: having been a Loyalist during the American Revolution, and his widow
: died in exile in London.
:> 13. Benjamin Tasker Dulany 1752-1811
: Second son and his mother's heir in his issue; his elder brother died
: unmarried in 1824 (Maryland Historical Magazine, 1918, p 155 et seq,
: which however states that Benjamin died in 1816). He married 1773
: Elizabeth French, "leaving many descendants".
:> 14. John Peyton Dulaney (sic) 1787-1878
: Apparently not an heir. By this stage of the pedigree I have
: experienced considerable difficulty in locating even potentially
: useful secondary sources. The IGI (which is not reliable) credits 12
: children to Benjamin and Elizabeth Dulany, of whom John is said to
: have been the third son; Benjamin Tasker Dulany and David [recte
: Daniel] French Dulany are said to have been his senior by 12 and 6
: years respectively. The latter left issue, all of whom would be in a
: better position to claim genealogical heirship than Howe.
: Additionally, according to websites there was a third older brother,
: William Washington Dulany, who is also said to have had issue.
: John Peyton Dulany was a farmer. He is said to have married Mary
: Debutts in 1812.
:> 15. Julia Ann Bladen Dulaney 1816-1865
: *Not an heir*, like so many of the individuals in the preceding
: generations of Howe's alleged pedigree. She had, for instance, a
: brother, Richard Henry Dulany (1820-1906) whose biography was
: published in 'Virginia Men of Mark', 1906, p 72; he married and had
: five children.
: According to the IGI she married Samuel Debutts, 13 September 1834
:> 16. John Peyton Debutts 1837-1912
: The IGI claims a birthdate of 30 November 1837; no siblings are listed
: so it is impossible to say whether he was the oldest son. He is
: documented as having fought for the Confederacy during the Civil War.
: He is in the 1880 Census, farming at Wicomico, Virginia, when he is
: shown with 8 children.
:> 17. Henry Grafton Debutts 1876-1953
: According to the 1880 Census, Henry Debutts was the fifth child and
: second son of his parents. It therefore seems unlikely that he was
: their heir - this was his older brother, John P. Debutts, born about
: 1868; he is probably the John Peyton Debutts who died in 1954.
Is the John DeButts who headed AT&T in the 1970s from this family?
Who's Who in America 1952-53 includes a Harry Ashby DeButts,
born 1895,whose father was Dulany Forrest DeButts...sounds like
:> 18. James Myers Debutts 1926-1970
: There is a Social Security entry for a James Debutts of Virginia,
: confirming the above dates. I cannot comment on his parentage or
: whether he was his father's heir, although if Henry was 50 when James
: was born it seems distinctly possible that there would have been older
:> 19. Janice Lee Debutts married David Howe
:> 20. David Howe - [the clown in question]
: I have not endeavoured to confirm the final two generations, due to
: lack of accessible sources and the likelihood that not even Howe would
: lie about his own parentage.
Well,recall Michel Lafosse...
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.