Discussion:
faux Georgian/Saxe-Altenburg
(too old to reply)
marlenekoenig
2004-03-04 20:06:48 UTC
Permalink
I am helping a reporter with information about these two folks ...
there have been several articles on Hans/Johannes (and it is easy to
show that the S-A family in the male line is extinct.

But the Georgian family, I know nothing about.

This is a most interesting royal marriage
princess Nana Andronikashvilli and Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg.
The family lives in Texas. Hans says he is the son of Prince Werner
son of Ernst II of Saxe-Altenburg ...

Ernst II was married twice, but he did not have a son Werner. More
importantly, the male S-A line is exinct.

Nana was apparently, according to a book jacket, born in Tbilisi. she
allegedly descends the direct male line of descent from Emperor
Andronikos of the Byzantine Comnenos dynasty (1054-1185.) Since the
1170s, the Kaxeti region in eastern Georgia is called Sa-Andronikos or
Land of Andronikos. The jacket blurb also says that she "is a
descendant of all royal houses of Georgia."

she also also starred in more than 50 films with 16 lead roles, more
than 1000 Georgian and internationally broadcast television shows, and
about 1400 live stage performances in several countries.

"Since Georgia's renewed independence, Princess Nana has been engaged
in international relations to represent her country and to facilitate
cultural and business exchanges."

Hans is German by background (notice not by birth - my note). He
attended several universities in the US, Germany and Mexico. He has
produced "numerous television shows" and "written three dozen books."

He's an archaelogist and a historian and has received an honorary
doctorate from the Russian Academy of Sciences .. also heads an oil
company and gives lectures at selected universities.

All of this comes from a book blurb sent to me by a reporter.

Had never heard of Nana before, but I have been researching "Hans" for
some time ... his daughter, in grade school, hands out cards "Princess
Victoria von Sachsen=Altenburg"
edespalais
2004-03-04 13:53:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by marlenekoenig
I am helping a reporter with information about these two folks ...
there have been several articles on Hans/Johannes (and it is easy to
show that the S-A family in the male line is extinct.
But the Georgian family, I know nothing about.
This is a most interesting royal marriage
princess Nana Andronikashvilli and Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg.
The family lives in Texas. Hans says he is the son of Prince Werner
son of Ernst II of Saxe-Altenburg ...
Ernst II was married twice, but he did not have a son Werner. More
importantly, the male S-A line is exinct.
Nana was apparently, according to a book jacket, born in Tbilisi. she
allegedly descends the direct male line of descent from Emperor
Andronikos of the Byzantine Comnenos dynasty (1054-1185.) Since the
1170s, the Kaxeti region in eastern Georgia is called Sa-Andronikos or
Land of Andronikos. The jacket blurb also says that she "is a
descendant of all royal houses of Georgia."
she also also starred in more than 50 films with 16 lead roles, more
than 1000 Georgian and internationally broadcast television shows, and
about 1400 live stage performances in several countries.
"Since Georgia's renewed independence, Princess Nana has been engaged
in international relations to represent her country and to facilitate
cultural and business exchanges."
Hans is German by background (notice not by birth - my note). He
attended several universities in the US, Germany and Mexico. He has
produced "numerous television shows" and "written three dozen books."
He's an archaelogist and a historian and has received an honorary
doctorate from the Russian Academy of Sciences .. also heads an oil
company and gives lectures at selected universities.
All of this comes from a book blurb sent to me by a reporter.
Had never heard of Nana before, but I have been researching "Hans" for
some time ... his daughter, in grade school, hands out cards "Princess
Victoria von Sachsen=Altenburg"
Why not a fausses pcesse? Keep cowboys and -boyesses busy! All that eating
nothing else than Ketchup
Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
2004-03-04 21:59:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by marlenekoenig
I am helping a reporter with information about these two folks ...
there have been several articles on Hans/Johannes (and it is easy to
show that the S-A family in the male line is extinct.
But the Georgian family, I know nothing about.
This is a most interesting royal marriage
princess Nana Andronikashvilli and Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg.
The family lives in Texas. Hans says he is the son of Prince Werner
son of Ernst II of Saxe-Altenburg ...
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. They
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to departments at
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people that they
are not who they say they are.

-- Stephen Stillwell
edespalais
2004-03-04 16:13:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by marlenekoenig
I am helping a reporter with information about these two folks ...
there have been several articles on Hans/Johannes (and it is easy to
show that the S-A family in the male line is extinct.
But the Georgian family, I know nothing about.
This is a most interesting royal marriage
princess Nana Andronikashvilli and Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg.
The family lives in Texas. Hans says he is the son of Prince Werner
son of Ernst II of Saxe-Altenburg ...
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. They
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to departments at
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people that they
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
h***@yahoo.com
2004-03-05 05:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. They
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to departments at
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people that they
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the
Southwestern Historical Association
and of UTA?
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such promises?
These people are up and up.
I think you are exposing yourself to some pretty nasty legal issues.
Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
2004-03-05 11:58:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
They
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to departments at
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people that they
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the Southwestern Historical Association and
of UTA?
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such promises?
These people are up and up. I think you are exposing yourself to some
pretty nasty legal issues.

Who are you? I sign my posts. And I have already answered this question
with specifics on at least one occasion here in a.t.r. And I stand by the
statement that I have made and that others have made - the House of
Saxe-Altenburg is extinct.

-- Stephen Stillwell
edespalais
2004-03-05 04:59:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
They
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to
departments at
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people that
they
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the Southwestern Historical Association and
of UTA?
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such promises?
These people are up and up. I think you are exposing yourself to some
pretty nasty legal issues.
Who are you? I sign my posts. And I have already answered this question
with specifics on at least one occasion here in a.t.r. And I stand by the
statement that I have made and that others have made - the House of
Saxe-Altenburg is extinct.
-- Stephen Stillwell
That is a q for ATR
h***@yahoo.com
2004-03-05 16:38:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
They
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to
departments at
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people that
they
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the Southwestern Historical Association and
of UTA?
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such promises?
These people are up and up. I think you are exposing yourself to some
pretty nasty legal issues.
Who are you? I sign my posts. And I have already answered this question
with specifics on at least one occasion here in a.t.r. And I stand by the
statement that I have made and that others have made - the House of
Saxe-Altenburg is extinct.
-- Stephen Stillwell
That is a q for ATR
Why don't you cite your specifics for all of us to read?
That's plain nonsense. There are several family members by that name
in Germany as you can see in recent issues of Gotha and Adelsblatt.
Also, why don't you respond to the previous request: give us some
examples.
Let's see whether you are serious.
Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
2004-03-05 19:20:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
They
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to
departments at
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people that
they
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the Southwestern Historical Association and
of UTA?
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such promises?
These people are up and up. I think you are exposing yourself to some
pretty nasty legal issues.
Who are you? I sign my posts. And I have already answered this question
with specifics on at least one occasion here in a.t.r. And I stand by the
statement that I have made and that others have made - the House of
Saxe-Altenburg is extinct.
-- Stephen Stillwell
That is a q for ATR
Why don't you cite your specifics for all of us to read?
That's plain nonsense. There are several family members by that name
in Germany as you can see in recent issues of Gotha and Adelsblatt.
Also, why don't you respond to the previous request: give us some
examples.
Let's see whether you are serious.
I see - you want me to supply information to you, so that you can take me
seriously and yet - you refuse to sign your name - you are simply
"highlandersheep."

Stephen J. Stillwell, jr., B.A., M.S.L.I.S., A.L.M., Ph.D.

(If you want to look further my full c.v. is on the web - with the list of
my publications, papers, public addresses, honor societies, classes taught,
etc.)
h***@yahoo.com
2004-03-05 23:50:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
They
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to
departments at
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people
that
they
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the Southwestern Historical Association
and
of UTA?
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such promises?
These people are up and up. I think you are exposing yourself to
some
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
pretty nasty legal issues.
Who are you? I sign my posts. And I have already answered this
question
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
with specifics on at least one occasion here in a.t.r. And I stand by
the
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
statement that I have made and that others have made - the House of
Saxe-Altenburg is extinct.
-- Stephen Stillwell
That is a q for ATR
Why don't you cite your specifics for all of us to read?
That's plain nonsense. There are several family members by that name
in Germany as you can see in recent issues of Gotha and Adelsblatt.
Also, why don't you respond to the previous request: give us some
examples.
Let's see whether you are serious.
I see - you want me to supply information to you, so that you can take me
seriously and yet - you refuse to sign your name - you are simply
"highlandersheep."
Stephen J. Stillwell, jr., B.A., M.S.L.I.S., A.L.M., Ph.D.
(If you want to look further my full c.v. is on the web - with the list of
my publications, papers, public addresses, honor societies, classes taught,
etc.)
I looked at your CV, that's how I recognized you.
I also notice your sloppy website and bad spelling.

So the point is - you cannot provide any evidence or quotes and
witnesses for your accusations?
Interesting.
Your list of letters after your name means absolutely nothing if you
cannot be serious and open with factual material.
Francois R. Velde
2004-03-06 03:45:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Your list of letters after your name means absolutely nothing if you
cannot be serious and open with factual material.
Speaking of open and serious, what's your name?
--
François Velde
***@nospam.org (replace by "heraldica")
Heraldry Site: http://www.heraldica.org/
edespalais
2004-03-05 23:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
They
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to
departments at
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people
that
they
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the Southwestern Historical Association
and
of UTA?
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such promises?
These people are up and up. I think you are exposing yourself to
some
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
pretty nasty legal issues.
Who are you? I sign my posts. And I have already answered this
question
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
with specifics on at least one occasion here in a.t.r. And I stand by
the
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
statement that I have made and that others have made - the House of
Saxe-Altenburg is extinct.
-- Stephen Stillwell
That is a q for ATR
Why don't you cite your specifics for all of us to read?
That's plain nonsense. There are several family members by that name
in Germany as you can see in recent issues of Gotha and Adelsblatt.
Also, why don't you respond to the previous request: give us some
examples.
Let's see whether you are serious.
I see - you want me to supply information to you, so that you can take me
seriously and yet - you refuse to sign your name - you are simply
"highlandersheep."
Stephen J. Stillwell, jr., B.A., M.S.L.I.S., A.L.M., Ph.D.
(If you want to look further my full c.v. is on the web - with the list of
my publications, papers, public addresses, honor societies, classes taught,
etc.)
I looked at your CV, that's how I recognized you.
I also notice your sloppy website and bad spelling.
So the point is - you cannot provide any evidence or quotes and
witnesses for your accusations?
Interesting.
Your list of letters after your name means absolutely nothing if you
cannot be serious and open with factual material.
En République des lettres such letters mean nothing at all, it is even sign
of a not recomandable person; but of course cowboys and their -boyesses may
ignore such
Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
2004-03-06 12:01:18 UTC
Permalink
Stillwell/Tom
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.
They
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to
departments at
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
state universities in the area. I have told any number of people
that
they
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the Southwestern Historical Association
and
of UTA?
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such promises?
These people are up and up. I think you are exposing yourself to
some
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
pretty nasty legal issues.
Who are you? I sign my posts. And I have already answered this
question
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
with specifics on at least one occasion here in a.t.r. And I stand by
the
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
statement that I have made and that others have made - the House of
Saxe-Altenburg is extinct.
-- Stephen Stillwell
That is a q for ATR
Why don't you cite your specifics for all of us to read?
That's plain nonsense. There are several family members by that name
in Germany as you can see in recent issues of Gotha and Adelsblatt.
Also, why don't you respond to the previous request: give us some
examples.
Let's see whether you are serious.
I see - you want me to supply information to you, so that you can take me
seriously and yet - you refuse to sign your name - you are simply
"highlandersheep."
Stephen J. Stillwell, jr., B.A., M.S.L.I.S., A.L.M., Ph.D.
(If you want to look further my full c.v. is on the web - with the list of
my publications, papers, public addresses, honor societies, classes taught,
etc.)
I looked at your CV, that's how I recognized you.
I also notice your sloppy website and bad spelling.
So the point is - you cannot provide any evidence or quotes and
witnesses for your accusations?
Interesting.
Your list of letters after your name means absolutely nothing if you
cannot be serious and open with factual material.
And you still refuse to tell anyone who you are. Simply sign your name to a
message and I will give you the information you request. This is the third
and final time I will tell you this.

-- Stephen J Stillwell jr
edespalais
2004-03-06 07:31:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Stillwell/Tom
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Yes, they occasionally show up here in the Dallas-Fort Worth
area.
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
They
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
promise money and patronage to gullible charities and even to
departments at
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
state universities in the area. I have told any number of
people
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
that
they
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
are not who they say they are.
-- Stephen Stillwell
Dallas' cowboyesses get what they are worth!
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the Southwestern Historical
Association
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
and
of UTA?
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such
promises?
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
These people are up and up. I think you are exposing yourself to
some
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
pretty nasty legal issues.
Who are you? I sign my posts. And I have already answered this
question
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
with specifics on at least one occasion here in a.t.r. And I
stand by
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
the
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
statement that I have made and that others have made - the House
of
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by edespalais
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Saxe-Altenburg is extinct.
-- Stephen Stillwell
That is a q for ATR
Why don't you cite your specifics for all of us to read?
That's plain nonsense. There are several family members by that name
in Germany as you can see in recent issues of Gotha and Adelsblatt.
Also, why don't you respond to the previous request: give us some
examples.
Let's see whether you are serious.
I see - you want me to supply information to you, so that you can take
me
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
seriously and yet - you refuse to sign your name - you are simply
"highlandersheep."
Stephen J. Stillwell, jr., B.A., M.S.L.I.S., A.L.M., Ph.D.
(If you want to look further my full c.v. is on the web - with the list
of
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
my publications, papers, public addresses, honor societies, classes
taught,
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
etc.)
I looked at your CV, that's how I recognized you.
I also notice your sloppy website and bad spelling.
So the point is - you cannot provide any evidence or quotes and
witnesses for your accusations?
Interesting.
Your list of letters after your name means absolutely nothing if you
cannot be serious and open with factual material.
And you still refuse to tell anyone who you are. Simply sign your name to a
message and I will give you the information you request. This is the third
and final time I will tell you this.
-- Stephen J Stillwell jr
En République des lettres one does not have a name!
Phillip DUKE
2004-03-06 19:09:11 UTC
Permalink
Australian men use the word "mate" to express volumes of unwritten code to
other men. It's all in the tone,context and whether we stress 'ma' or 'te'.
When we stress 'te', we are being friendly. It's also a polite and
diplomatic but casual way to say "Sir": as in "Yeah mate?" That means "Can
I help you sir?".

When we use 'mate' after a first name with the emphasis on 'ma' we express
anger, disapproval, annoyance, disappointment and unhappiness with that
person usually in the context of the finished quality of his work. By
using the word 'mate' in this context, we are also signalling that we are
not wanting a fight even though we are being highly critical. When we are
looking for a fight, we never say the person's name and never use 'mate'
e.g. "Listen, !!!!!!!!!!!(crude word) blah, blah.blah......"

When we use 'mate' after a man's name with the emphasis on 'te', we are
being playful and expect to be joshed back. When that joshing is not
returned, it is deep code for that other person not liking you and you never
realised it and now you do.

Gasp! I never realised explaining Australianese would be so complicated.

So, Stephen, mate (emphasis on 'ma'), when you invite someone round to your
place, the expectation is that it is neat and tidy. The presentation of your
web site caused me to purse my lips and raise my eyebrows.
edespalais
2004-03-06 12:54:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip DUKE
Australian men use the word "mate" to express volumes of unwritten code to
other men. It's all in the tone,context and whether we stress 'ma' or 'te'.
When we stress 'te', we are being friendly. It's also a polite and
diplomatic but casual way to say "Sir": as in "Yeah mate?" That means "Can
I help you sir?".
When we use 'mate' after a first name with the emphasis on 'ma' we express
anger, disapproval, annoyance, disappointment and unhappiness with that
person usually in the context of the finished quality of his work. By
using the word 'mate' in this context, we are also signalling that we are
not wanting a fight even though we are being highly critical. When we are
looking for a fight, we never say the person's name and never use 'mate'
e.g. "Listen, !!!!!!!!!!!(crude word) blah, blah.blah......"
When we use 'mate' after a man's name with the emphasis on 'te', we are
being playful and expect to be joshed back. When that joshing is not
returned, it is deep code for that other person not liking you and you never
realised it and now you do.
Gasp! I never realised explaining Australianese would be so complicated.
So, Stephen, mate (emphasis on 'ma'), when you invite someone round to your
place, the expectation is that it is neat and tidy. The presentation of your
web site caused me to purse my lips and raise my eyebrows.
Can the reader be pleased in British English. Cowboy language may be used
when cowboys are together with their cowboyesses, while *mating*
Nicola
2004-03-07 10:27:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by edespalais
Can the reader be pleased in British English. Cowboy language may be used
when cowboys are together with their cowboyesses, while *mating*
The correct term is "cowgirl", not "cowboyess" which is not a real
word. Perhaps you should spend some time learning proper English
before criticising how others speak it.
edespalais
2004-03-07 06:17:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicola
Post by edespalais
Can the reader be pleased in British English. Cowboy language may be used
when cowboys are together with their cowboyesses, while *mating*
The correct term is "cowgirl", not "cowboyess" which is not a real
word. Perhaps you should spend some time learning proper English
before criticising how others speak it.
boyesse is Franglais of Saigon, which can very useful be used concerning
American women. Those, who has been to Vietnam know the Americans are ³numer
ten", one of them seeks becoming President of the greatest cowboy ranch.
(The Aussies in V were of course much higher rated, those from NZ even
higher)
Frank R.A.J. Maloney
2004-03-07 18:11:12 UTC
Permalink
Post by Nicola
Post by edespalais
Can the reader be pleased in British English. Cowboy language may be used
when cowboys are together with their cowboyesses, while *mating*
The correct term is "cowgirl", not "cowboyess" which is not a real
word. Perhaps you should spend some time learning proper English
before criticising how others speak it.
And leave us never forget that the late Dale Evans was the last Queen of the
Cowgirls.
--
Frank in Seattle

___________

Frank Richard Aloysius Jude Maloney

"I leave you now in radiant contentment"
-- "Whistling in the Dark"
Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
2004-03-06 20:48:35 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
When we use 'mate' after a first name with the emphasis on 'ma' we express
anger, disapproval, annoyance, disappointment and unhappiness with that
person usually in the context of the finished quality of his work. By
using the word 'mate' in this context, we are also signalling that we are
not wanting a fight even though we are being highly critical.
[another snip]
So, Stephen, mate (emphasis on 'ma'), when you invite someone round to your
place, the expectation is that it is neat and tidy. The presentation of your
web site caused me to purse my lips and raise my eyebrows.
I presume that it is this Stephen that you are addressing your diatribe
towards. I do not care one way or the other whether you like any of the
three websites that I have created or co-created. I do not know you and
have no reason to value your review of them. As far as I know you are
niether a web designer nor an historian.

My professorial page is regularly rated among the best at our university by
the students. Its helpfulness to my students is really the main goal - and
they feel it meets their needs. Its various explorations into historical
topics has put me in touch with colleagues in Egypt, Canada, Australia,
Germany, and elsewhere. All seem to enjoy it.

The page I set-up for the Southwestern Historical Association was done
according to the dictates of the Executive Committee of that group. The
needs of the members of the Association are served by it. That is important
to me and the only criterion on which it may be judged.

My personal pages are there really for my enjoyment not for anyone's
edification or pleasure. So if you do not like it -- TOUGH!!

If you find specific factual errors on any of the pages, I would be happy to
know about them and to give public recognition to the person who has found
my mistakes.

Now, unless you have something to add in a positive manner to the discussion
of the faux House of Saxe-Altenburg. Go away.

-- Stephen J Stillwell jr
edespalais
2004-03-06 23:36:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Phillip DUKE
[snip]
When we use 'mate' after a first name with the emphasis on 'ma' we
express
anger, disapproval, annoyance, disappointment and unhappiness with that
person usually in the context of the finished quality of his work. By
using the word 'mate' in this context, we are also signalling that we are
not wanting a fight even though we are being highly critical.
[another snip]
So, Stephen, mate (emphasis on 'ma'), when you invite someone round to
your
place, the expectation is that it is neat and tidy. The presentation of
your
web site caused me to purse my lips and raise my eyebrows.
I presume that it is this Stephen that you are addressing your diatribe
towards. I do not care one way or the other whether you like any of the
three websites that I have created or co-created. I do not know you and
have no reason to value your review of them. As far as I know you are
niether a web designer nor an historian.
My professorial page is regularly rated among the best at our university by
the students. Its helpfulness to my students is really the main goal - and
they feel it meets their needs. Its various explorations into historical
topics has put me in touch with colleagues in Egypt, Canada, Australia,
Germany, and elsewhere. All seem to enjoy it.
The page I set-up for the Southwestern Historical Association was done
according to the dictates of the Executive Committee of that group. The
needs of the members of the Association are served by it. That is important
to me and the only criterion on which it may be judged.
My personal pages are there really for my enjoyment not for anyone's
edification or pleasure. So if you do not like it -- TOUGH!!
If you find specific factual errors on any of the pages, I would be happy to
know about them and to give public recognition to the person who has found
my mistakes.
Now, unless you have something to add in a positive manner to the discussion
of the faux House of Saxe-Altenburg. Go away.
-- Stephen J Stillwell jr
Why not Stephen J Stillwell, II

One sees that often with cowboys
Thomas J.F. Wallis
2004-03-07 11:00:12 UTC
Permalink
What is this obsession with "cowboys"? Are you a crazed "Village
People" fan? Aren't there other bulletin boards and newsgroups for
people with your particular fetish?

Let me commend to you "The Yankee and Cowboy War: Conspiracies from
Dallas to Watergate", by Carl Oglesby.

Also, recently received volumes 2 thru 5 of your namesake's books on
the Hungarian aristocracy. Well worth the price even with my
excruciatingly limited command of Magyar.

Regards,

Thomas J.F. Wallis..
Post by Phillip DUKE
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
[snip]
When we use 'mate' after a first name with the emphasis on 'ma' we
express
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
anger, disapproval, annoyance, disappointment and unhappiness with that
person usually in the context of the finished quality of his work. By
using the word 'mate' in this context, we are also signalling that we are
not wanting a fight even though we are being highly critical.
[another snip]
So, Stephen, mate (emphasis on 'ma'), when you invite someone round to
your
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
place, the expectation is that it is neat and tidy. The presentation of
your
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
web site caused me to purse my lips and raise my eyebrows.
I presume that it is this Stephen that you are addressing your diatribe
towards. I do not care one way or the other whether you like any of the
three websites that I have created or co-created. I do not know you and
have no reason to value your review of them. As far as I know you are
niether a web designer nor an historian.
My professorial page is regularly rated among the best at our university by
the students. Its helpfulness to my students is really the main goal - and
they feel it meets their needs. Its various explorations into historical
topics has put me in touch with colleagues in Egypt, Canada, Australia,
Germany, and elsewhere. All seem to enjoy it.
The page I set-up for the Southwestern Historical Association was done
according to the dictates of the Executive Committee of that group. The
needs of the members of the Association are served by it. That is important
to me and the only criterion on which it may be judged.
My personal pages are there really for my enjoyment not for anyone's
edification or pleasure. So if you do not like it -- TOUGH!!
If you find specific factual errors on any of the pages, I would be happy to
know about them and to give public recognition to the person who has found
my mistakes.
Now, unless you have something to add in a positive manner to the discussion
of the faux House of Saxe-Altenburg. Go away.
-- Stephen J Stillwell jr
Why not Stephen J Stillwell, II
One sees that often with cowboys
Cooper
2004-03-07 11:16:29 UTC
Permalink
Dear Mr. Stillwell,

You are absolutely right. These other individuals add nothing to our
knowledge and understanding of the issues at hand. I believe that any
intelligent person will see their comments for what they are - petty
attacks and empty words - and will not give them a second thought.

I have come to the realization that there is no point in even
dignifying such postings with a reply.

Fred Cooper
Post by Phillip DUKE
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
[snip]
When we use 'mate' after a first name with the emphasis on 'ma' we
express
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
anger, disapproval, annoyance, disappointment and unhappiness with that
person usually in the context of the finished quality of his work. By
using the word 'mate' in this context, we are also signalling that we are
not wanting a fight even though we are being highly critical.
[another snip]
So, Stephen, mate (emphasis on 'ma'), when you invite someone round to
your
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
place, the expectation is that it is neat and tidy. The presentation of
your
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
web site caused me to purse my lips and raise my eyebrows.
I presume that it is this Stephen that you are addressing your diatribe
towards. I do not care one way or the other whether you like any of the
three websites that I have created or co-created. I do not know you and
have no reason to value your review of them. As far as I know you are
niether a web designer nor an historian.
My professorial page is regularly rated among the best at our university by
the students. Its helpfulness to my students is really the main goal - and
they feel it meets their needs. Its various explorations into historical
topics has put me in touch with colleagues in Egypt, Canada, Australia,
Germany, and elsewhere. All seem to enjoy it.
The page I set-up for the Southwestern Historical Association was done
according to the dictates of the Executive Committee of that group. The
needs of the members of the Association are served by it. That is important
to me and the only criterion on which it may be judged.
My personal pages are there really for my enjoyment not for anyone's
edification or pleasure. So if you do not like it -- TOUGH!!
If you find specific factual errors on any of the pages, I would be happy to
know about them and to give public recognition to the person who has found
my mistakes.
Now, unless you have something to add in a positive manner to the discussion
of the faux House of Saxe-Altenburg. Go away.
-- Stephen J Stillwell jr
Why not Stephen J Stillwell, II
One sees that often with cowboys
Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
2004-03-07 13:06:46 UTC
Permalink
[large snip]
Post by edespalais
Why not Stephen J Stillwell, II
One sees that often with cowboys
1) Just because I live temporarily in the Fort Worth area does not make me
a cowboy.

2) Genealogically speaking there is a difference between a "junior" and a
"II." But I can assume that you would not know that.

-- Stephen
edespalais
2004-03-07 07:50:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
[large snip]
Post by edespalais
Why not Stephen J Stillwell, II
One sees that often with cowboys
1) Just because I live temporarily in the Fort Worth area does not make me
a cowboy.
From Alaska to Miami, an US-citizen: cowboy
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
2) Genealogically speaking there is a difference between a "junior" and a
"II." But I can assume that you would not know that.
You are indeed quite right!
Michael Andrews-Reading
2004-03-07 14:49:09 UTC
Permalink
[snip]
When we use 'mate' after a first name with the emphasis on 'ma' we express
anger, disapproval, annoyance, disappointment and unhappiness with that
person usually in the context of the finished quality of his work. By
using the word 'mate' in this context, we are also signalling that we are
not wanting a fight even though we are being highly critical.
[another snip]
So, Stephen, mate (emphasis on 'ma'), when you invite someone round to your
place, the expectation is that it is neat and tidy. The presentation of
your web site caused me to purse my lips and raise my eyebrows.
I was disappointed to read the above post on the original thread. An
apology to Mr Stilwell on behalf of Australians, not all of whom have
such poor manners.
Cooper
2004-03-06 14:58:32 UTC
Permalink
I've never corresponded with a sheep before, whether from the
highlands or not, but there's always a first time for everything.
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Why don't you cite your specifics for all of us to read?
Let me oblige on Mr. Stillwell's behalf ...
Post by h***@yahoo.com
That's plain nonsense. There are several family members by that name
in Germany as you can see in recent issues of Gotha and Adelsblatt.
Umm, ewe may want to consider a new pair of reading glasses. True,
members of this family are mentioned in the Genealogisches Handbuch
des Adels as recently as 1991, however, they are all mentioned as
being DEAD (1989, 1991, 1991 and 1985 to be exact). This book states:
"2. Zweig: Haus Sachsen-Altenburg (vorm. Hildburghausen) Erloschen."
Maybe ewer German is not up to speed, but "Erloschen" means "extinct."
Extinct is defined as "1. not existing now; that has ended or died
out." Therefore, if the Sachsen-Altenburg line is not existing now or
has ended / died out ... is there really any need to finish that
sentence?
Post by h***@yahoo.com
This family is neither extinct nor faux.
They reside in Germany and visit Texas and California regularly.
Your information is obviously erroneous.
The only evidence ewe provide as "obvious" support of the legitimacy
of his claim of being a Prince of the House of Sachsen-Altenburg is
that he resides in Germany and visits Texas and California regularly.
That hardly constitutes proof of anything other than he probably racks
up a lot of frequent flyer miles. I travel to Texas and California
regularly as well. Does that make me a Prince? A birth certificate
would be a good place to start, as opposed to a travel itinerary that
is.

The published genealogies of the Sachsen-Altenburg family all indicate
that the family is extinct, giving all those who have posted so far
every reason to doubt. It is only normal that they should. Therefore,
if he is who he says he is and wants to settle the matter once and for
all, then he should be more than willing to offer up his birth
certificate as proof. Only a fraud would put forth the lame argument:
I don't have to prove it to you or anyone, pretend to be insulted, and
walk away indignantly.
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
I see - you want me to supply information to you, so that you can take me
seriously and yet - you refuse to sign your name - you are simply
"highlandersheep."
Stephen J. Stillwell, jr., B.A., M.S.L.I.S., A.L.M., Ph.D.
I looked at your CV, that's how I recognized you.
I also notice your sloppy website and bad spelling.
A personal and petty attack that has nothing to do with the question
at hand. Red flag!
Post by h***@yahoo.com
So the point is - you cannot provide any evidence or quotes and
witnesses for your accusations?
No, the point is (even though ewe try to change the subject): ewe
still continue to refuse to identify ewerself, seeing as ewe did not
sign this posting either. Red flag number 2!!

Sincerely ewers,

Fred V. L. V. Cooper
Michael Andrews-Reading
2004-03-06 14:48:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Are you Stephen Stillwell of the
Southwestern Historical Association
and of UTA?
Why don't you tell us when and where they have made such promises?
These people are up and up.
I think you are exposing yourself to some pretty nasty legal issues.
Ooh, are you Highlander Sheep of the Anonymous Oviform Experts'
Network? I really admire your work.

I visit Altenburg frequently, and was at the old ducal Palace just
last month. The folk there will be fascinated to know of the amazing
survival of the former ruling family, as they also appear to be
convinced it is extinct.

I await your evidence with great interest, O Woolly One.
h***@yahoo.com
2004-03-05 05:13:44 UTC
Permalink
This family is neither extinct nor faux.
They reside in Germany and visit Texas and California regularly.
Your information is obviously erroneous.
marlenekoenig
2004-03-05 17:14:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
This family is neither extinct nor faux.
They reside in Germany and visit Texas and California regularly.
Your information is obviously erroneous.
"Prince Johannes (Hans) von Sachsen-Altenburg" resides in the
Dallas-Ft Worth area.

he is most certainly not a prince of Saxe-Altenberg as the male line
is extinct.
Lisa Davidson
2004-03-05 06:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by marlenekoenig
I am helping a reporter with information about these two folks ...
there have been several articles on Hans/Johannes (and it is easy to
show that the S-A family in the male line is extinct.
But the Georgian family, I know nothing about.
This is a most interesting royal marriage
princess Nana Andronikashvilli and Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg.
The family lives in Texas. Hans says he is the son of Prince Werner
son of Ernst II of Saxe-Altenburg ...
There is a Georgian princely family called Andronikashvili.
Post by marlenekoenig
Ernst II was married twice, but he did not have a son Werner. More
importantly, the male S-A line is exinct.
Nana was apparently, according to a book jacket, born in Tbilisi. she
allegedly descends the direct male line of descent from Emperor
Andronikos of the Byzantine Comnenos dynasty (1054-1185.) Since the
1170s, the Kaxeti region in eastern Georgia is called Sa-Andronikos or
Land of Andronikos. The jacket blurb also says that she "is a
descendant of all royal houses of Georgia."
The Andronikashvili family is reputed to have a descent from the Komnenos
dynasty. I think beyond this you would need someone who knows more
specifics on Georgian princely families. Maybe Tim B?

Lisa Davidson
Post by marlenekoenig
she also also starred in more than 50 films with 16 lead roles, more
than 1000 Georgian and internationally broadcast television shows, and
about 1400 live stage performances in several countries.
"Since Georgia's renewed independence, Princess Nana has been engaged
in international relations to represent her country and to facilitate
cultural and business exchanges."
Hans is German by background (notice not by birth - my note). He
attended several universities in the US, Germany and Mexico. He has
produced "numerous television shows" and "written three dozen books."
He's an archaelogist and a historian and has received an honorary
doctorate from the Russian Academy of Sciences .. also heads an oil
company and gives lectures at selected universities.
All of this comes from a book blurb sent to me by a reporter.
Had never heard of Nana before, but I have been researching "Hans" for
some time ... his daughter, in grade school, hands out cards "Princess
Victoria von Sachsen=Altenburg"
Tim Boettger
2004-03-05 12:53:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Lisa Davidson
Post by marlenekoenig
I am helping a reporter with information about these two folks ...
there have been several articles on Hans/Johannes (and it is easy to
show that the S-A family in the male line is extinct.
But the Georgian family, I know nothing about.
This is a most interesting royal marriage
princess Nana Andronikashvilli and Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg.
The family lives in Texas. Hans says he is the son of Prince Werner
son of Ernst II of Saxe-Altenburg ...
There is a Georgian princely family called Andronikashvili.
Post by marlenekoenig
Ernst II was married twice, but he did not have a son Werner. More
importantly, the male S-A line is exinct.
Nana was apparently, according to a book jacket, born in Tbilisi. she
allegedly descends the direct male line of descent from Emperor
Andronikos of the Byzantine Comnenos dynasty (1054-1185.) Since the
1170s, the Kaxeti region in eastern Georgia is called Sa-Andronikos or
Land of Andronikos. The jacket blurb also says that she "is a
descendant of all royal houses of Georgia."
The Andronikashvili family is reputed to have a descent from the Komnenos
dynasty. I think beyond this you would need someone who knows more
specifics on Georgian princely families. Maybe Tim B?
Lisa Davidson
Yes, Tim B. does have information on the Princes Andronikashvili. I am
personally acquainted with members of the family in France and have in
my collection published as well as manuscript genealogies communicated
by acquaintances in Georgia.

The Comnenos origin is legendary, i.e. cannot be documented, as is the
case with many of the origins frequently cited for the dynastic
princely families of the Russian Empire, and is akin to the
Bagration's claim to be descended from the Biblical King David. As I
have recently come to realise, these legends really do not even bear
repeating as they simply lend them credibility. As for her descent
from "all the Royal houses of Georgia," it is very possible as many
Georgian princely families intermarried with the Bagrations etc. I
would have to establish her exact lineage to know for sure and how.

I do have more historically accurate information with regard to their
origin as well as genealogies, so Marlene or the reporter can contact
me directly if they would like me to pursue the matter in more depth.

Regards,

Tim B(oettger)

Author of the soon to be published: Princely and Noble Families of
Georgia (Kartli-Kakheti), Imereti, Guria, and Samegrelo (Mingrelia).
[In Georgian, Russian, and a Latinised transcription of both.]
h***@yahoo.com
2004-03-05 23:41:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Boettger
Post by Lisa Davidson
Post by marlenekoenig
I am helping a reporter with information about these two folks ...
there have been several articles on Hans/Johannes (and it is easy to
show that the S-A family in the male line is extinct.
But the Georgian family, I know nothing about.
This is a most interesting royal marriage
princess Nana Andronikashvilli and Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg.
The family lives in Texas. Hans says he is the son of Prince Werner
son of Ernst II of Saxe-Altenburg ...
There is a Georgian princely family called Andronikashvili.
Post by marlenekoenig
Ernst II was married twice, but he did not have a son Werner. More
importantly, the male S-A line is exinct.
Nana was apparently, according to a book jacket, born in Tbilisi. she
allegedly descends the direct male line of descent from Emperor
Andronikos of the Byzantine Comnenos dynasty (1054-1185.) Since the
1170s, the Kaxeti region in eastern Georgia is called Sa-Andronikos or
Land of Andronikos. The jacket blurb also says that she "is a
descendant of all royal houses of Georgia."
The Andronikashvili family is reputed to have a descent from the Komnenos
dynasty. I think beyond this you would need someone who knows more
specifics on Georgian princely families. Maybe Tim B?
Lisa Davidson
Yes, Tim B. does have information on the Princes Andronikashvili. I am
personally acquainted with members of the family in France and have in
my collection published as well as manuscript genealogies communicated
by acquaintances in Georgia.
The Comnenos origin is legendary, i.e. cannot be documented, as is the
case with many of the origins frequently cited for the dynastic
princely families of the Russian Empire, and is akin to the
Bagration's claim to be descended from the Biblical King David. As I
have recently come to realise, these legends really do not even bear
repeating as they simply lend them credibility. As for her descent
from "all the Royal houses of Georgia," it is very possible as many
Georgian princely families intermarried with the Bagrations etc. I
would have to establish her exact lineage to know for sure and how.
I do have more historically accurate information with regard to their
origin as well as genealogies, so Marlene or the reporter can contact
me directly if they would like me to pursue the matter in more depth.
Regards,
Tim B(oettger)
Author of the soon to be published: Princely and Noble Families of
Georgia (Kartli-Kakheti), Imereti, Guria, and Samegrelo (Mingrelia).
[In Georgian, Russian, and a Latinised transcription of both.]
Nana's ancestry can easily be looked up in
Prince Yuri Chicovani, in Dumin, Stanislav V., The Families of the
Nobility of the Russian Empire, III, Moscow; and vol. IV.
provided you can read Russian.
Chicovani is the internationally recognized geneaologist in Georgia.
Some of the A. family emigrated to Switzerland and Germany during the
1920's and were recognized as Fuersten,prince.
edespalais
2004-03-05 23:06:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Tim Boettger
Post by Lisa Davidson
Post by marlenekoenig
I am helping a reporter with information about these two folks ...
there have been several articles on Hans/Johannes (and it is easy to
show that the S-A family in the male line is extinct.
But the Georgian family, I know nothing about.
This is a most interesting royal marriage
princess Nana Andronikashvilli and Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg.
The family lives in Texas. Hans says he is the son of Prince Werner
son of Ernst II of Saxe-Altenburg ...
There is a Georgian princely family called Andronikashvili.
Post by marlenekoenig
Ernst II was married twice, but he did not have a son Werner. More
importantly, the male S-A line is exinct.
Nana was apparently, according to a book jacket, born in Tbilisi. she
allegedly descends the direct male line of descent from Emperor
Andronikos of the Byzantine Comnenos dynasty (1054-1185.) Since the
1170s, the Kaxeti region in eastern Georgia is called Sa-Andronikos or
Land of Andronikos. The jacket blurb also says that she "is a
descendant of all royal houses of Georgia."
The Andronikashvili family is reputed to have a descent from the Komnenos
dynasty. I think beyond this you would need someone who knows more
specifics on Georgian princely families. Maybe Tim B?
Lisa Davidson
Yes, Tim B. does have information on the Princes Andronikashvili. I am
personally acquainted with members of the family in France and have in
my collection published as well as manuscript genealogies communicated
by acquaintances in Georgia.
The Comnenos origin is legendary, i.e. cannot be documented, as is the
case with many of the origins frequently cited for the dynastic
princely families of the Russian Empire, and is akin to the
Bagration's claim to be descended from the Biblical King David. As I
have recently come to realise, these legends really do not even bear
repeating as they simply lend them credibility. As for her descent
from "all the Royal houses of Georgia," it is very possible as many
Georgian princely families intermarried with the Bagrations etc. I
would have to establish her exact lineage to know for sure and how.
I do have more historically accurate information with regard to their
origin as well as genealogies, so Marlene or the reporter can contact
me directly if they would like me to pursue the matter in more depth.
Regards,
Tim B(oettger)
Author of the soon to be published: Princely and Noble Families of
Georgia (Kartli-Kakheti), Imereti, Guria, and Samegrelo (Mingrelia).
[In Georgian, Russian, and a Latinised transcription of both.]
Nana's ancestry can easily be looked up in
Prince Yuri Chicovani, in Dumin, Stanislav V., The Families of the
Nobility of the Russian Empire, III, Moscow; and vol. IV.
provided you can read Russian.
Chicovani is the internationally recognized geneaologist in Georgia.
Some of the A. family emigrated to Switzerland and Germany during the
1920's and were recognized as Fuersten,prince.
Certainly not recognized!
Cooper
2004-03-07 10:42:22 UTC
Permalink
I've never corresponded with a sheep before, whether from the
highlands or not, but there's always a first time for everything.
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Why don't you cite your specifics for all of us to read?
Let me oblige on Mr. Stillwell's behalf ...
Post by h***@yahoo.com
That's plain nonsense. There are several family members by that name
in Germany as you can see in recent issues of Gotha and Adelsblatt.
Umm, ewe may want to consider a new pair of reading glasses. True,
members of this family are mentioned in the Genealogisches Handbuch
des Adels as recently as 1991, however, they are all mentioned as
being DEAD (1989, 1991, 1991 and 1985 to be exact). This book states:
"2. Zweig: Haus Sachsen-Altenburg (vorm. Hildburghausen) Erloschen."
Maybe ewer German is not up to speed, but "Erloschen" means "extinct."
Extinct is defined as "1. not existing now; that has ended or died
out." Therefore, if the Sachsen-Altenburg line is not existing now or
has ended / died out ... is there really any need to finish that
sentence?
Post by h***@yahoo.com
This family is neither extinct nor faux.
They reside in Germany and visit Texas and California regularly.
Your information is obviously erroneous.
The only evidence ewe provide as "obvious" support of the legitimacy
of his claim of being a Prince of the House of Sachsen-Altenburg is
that he resides in Germany and visits Texas and California regularly.
That hardly constitutes proof of anything other than he probably racks
up a lot of frequent flyer miles. I travel to Texas and California
regularly as well. Does that make me a Prince? A birth certificate
would be a good place to start, as opposed to a travel itinerary that
is.

The published genealogies of the Sachsen-Altenburg family all indicate
that the family is extinct, giving all those who have posted so far
every reason to doubt. It is only normal that they should. Therefore,
if he is who he says he is and wants to settle the matter once and for
all, then he should be more than willing to offer up his birth
certificate as proof. Only a fraud would put forth the lame argument:
I don't have to prove it to you or anyone, pretend to be insulted, and
walk away indignantly.
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Post by Stephen Stillwell/Tom Wilding
I see - you want me to supply information to you, so that you can take me
seriously and yet - you refuse to sign your name - you are simply
"highlandersheep."
Stephen J. Stillwell, jr., B.A., M.S.L.I.S., A.L.M., Ph.D.
I looked at your CV, that's how I recognized you.
I also notice your sloppy website and bad spelling.
A personal and petty attack that has nothing to do with the question
at hand. Red flag!
Post by h***@yahoo.com
So the point is - you cannot provide any evidence or quotes and
witnesses for your accusations?
No, the point is (even though ewe try to change the subject): ewe
still continue to refuse to identify ewerself, seeing as ewe did not
sign this posting either. Red flag number 2!!

Sincerely ewers,

Fred V. L. V. Cooper
Dimitry Macedonsky
2004-03-07 20:35:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by h***@yahoo.com
Nana's ancestry can easily be looked up in
Prince Yuri Chicovani, in Dumin, Stanislav V., The Families of the
Nobility of the Russian Empire, III, Moscow; and vol. IV.
provided you can read Russian.
No 126 in the Chart 55, born in 1959?
--
Dimitry Macedonsky
St.Petersburg, Russia
http://macedonsky.narod.ru/english.html
Lisa Davidson
2004-03-07 17:31:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim Boettger
Post by Lisa Davidson
Post by marlenekoenig
I am helping a reporter with information about these two folks ...
there have been several articles on Hans/Johannes (and it is easy to
show that the S-A family in the male line is extinct.
But the Georgian family, I know nothing about.
This is a most interesting royal marriage
princess Nana Andronikashvilli and Prince Hans von Sachsen-Altenburg.
The family lives in Texas. Hans says he is the son of Prince Werner
son of Ernst II of Saxe-Altenburg ...
There is a Georgian princely family called Andronikashvili.
Post by marlenekoenig
Ernst II was married twice, but he did not have a son Werner. More
importantly, the male S-A line is exinct.
Nana was apparently, according to a book jacket, born in Tbilisi. she
allegedly descends the direct male line of descent from Emperor
Andronikos of the Byzantine Comnenos dynasty (1054-1185.) Since the
1170s, the Kaxeti region in eastern Georgia is called Sa-Andronikos or
Land of Andronikos. The jacket blurb also says that she "is a
descendant of all royal houses of Georgia."
The Andronikashvili family is reputed to have a descent from the Komnenos
dynasty. I think beyond this you would need someone who knows more
specifics on Georgian princely families. Maybe Tim B?
Lisa Davidson
Yes, Tim B. does have information on the Princes Andronikashvili. I am
personally acquainted with members of the family in France and have in
my collection published as well as manuscript genealogies communicated
by acquaintances in Georgia.
The Comnenos origin is legendary, i.e. cannot be documented, as is the
case with many of the origins frequently cited for the dynastic
princely families of the Russian Empire, and is akin to the
Bagration's claim to be descended from the Biblical King David. As I
have recently come to realise, these legends really do not even bear
repeating as they simply lend them credibility. As for her descent
from "all the Royal houses of Georgia," it is very possible as many
Georgian princely families intermarried with the Bagrations etc. I
would have to establish her exact lineage to know for sure and how.
I do have more historically accurate information with regard to their
origin as well as genealogies, so Marlene or the reporter can contact
me directly if they would like me to pursue the matter in more depth.
Regards,
Tim B(oettger)
Author of the soon to be published: Princely and Noble Families of
Georgia (Kartli-Kakheti), Imereti, Guria, and Samegrelo (Mingrelia).
[In Georgian, Russian, and a Latinised transcription of both.]
Dear Tim B:

I could not remember how to spell your last name when writing my post. I was hoping you were lurking
and would not be offended by the designation "Tim B" . Or that someone who knows something of Russian
nobility (who would certainly know who you are) would alert you to the need for information.

Thank you so much for not being offended and being so generous with your information.

Regards,

Lisa D
with the Red Face
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