Discussion:
Count de Lancastro / Lancastre
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Steven Robb
2003-09-24 09:51:37 UTC
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Does anyone have any information on the later branches of the
Portugese family who used the title Count de Lancastro / Lancastre,
(having been descended from Phillipa, daughter of John of Gaunt
(1340-1399) and his wife Blanche of Lancaster, heiress to the Duchy of
Lancaster - John II of Portugal (1455-1495)had an illegitimate son
with his mistress Ana de Mendoza, Jorge de Lancastre (1481-1550) who
was the progenitor of the de Lancastre family )
In 1873 Don Antonio Manuel de Lancastre Soldana, Count de Lancastre,
married Louise Maria Brudnenell, nee de Horsey (1862-1915), widow of
the 7th Earl of Cardigan, of Light Brigade fame. But the sister of
the Sobieski Stuart brothers, Countess Matilda Boisquet de la
Fleuriere nee Allen, also married (as her second husband) a
Lancastre/Lancastro - Count Ferdinand Montesino de Lancastro, Count de
Lancastro, and their son took the name Charles Ferdinand Montesino de
Lancastro-Stuart et d'Albanie (1844-1873). Does anyone know whether
Matilda's husbands title was as bogus as her brothers, or did she
really marry two foreign Counts ?
steven
Guy Stair Sainty
2003-09-24 15:10:54 UTC
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In article <***@posting.google.com>, Steven Robb
says...
Post by Steven Robb
Does anyone have any information on the later branches of the
Portugese family who used the title Count de Lancastro / Lancastre,
(having been descended from Phillipa, daughter of John of Gaunt
(1340-1399) and his wife Blanche of Lancaster, heiress to the Duchy of
Lancaster - John II of Portugal (1455-1495)had an illegitimate son
with his mistress Ana de Mendoza, Jorge de Lancastre (1481-1550) who
was the progenitor of the de Lancastre family )
In 1873 Don Antonio Manuel de Lancastre Soldana, Count de Lancastre,
married Louise Maria Brudnenell, nee de Horsey (1862-1915), widow of
the 7th Earl of Cardigan, of Light Brigade fame. But the sister of
the Sobieski Stuart brothers, Countess Matilda Boisquet de la
Fleuriere nee Allen, also married (as her second husband) a
Lancastre/Lancastro - Count Ferdinand Montesino de Lancastro, Count de
Lancastro, and their son took the name Charles Ferdinand Montesino de
Lancastro-Stuart et d'Albanie (1844-1873). Does anyone know whether
Matilda's husbands title was as bogus as her brothers, or did she
really marry two foreign Counts ?
I do not know about Matilda, but the history of the Lancastre title and family
is very confusing because of Portuguese names and the way that agnatic and
cognatic lines change names, drop one name and keep another. I find it
incomprehensible and illogical (in fact although there are rules, I do not think
they are kept to, and families just sometimes drop a male line name and keep the
female line name). All Portuguese titles descend by mixed primogeniture, but
most were created for 1, 2 or 3 lives with relatively few permanently
inheritable. What happened under the monarchy was that the Crown would usually
confirm the succession of a title when it expired if there was a direct heir,
and sometimes to a cadet, provided the family had not left Portugal and sold its
estates. The late duke of Braganza appointed a Conselho de Nobreza to confirm
the succession of titles, and this has continued to do so until this year. Now I
understand that Dom Duarte as decided to reform the Council and perhaps
re-assign its functions; I am not sure exactly what has been proposed. In the
case you cite, I suspect that there may have been a confusion of names as to
which one was the patrilineal name, and perhaps the assumption of the title of
Count on the name when it was actually territorial with another name. Or of
course it may have been an invented title. One might well find, though, that at
the date in question a title now held by a different family was then held by
someone with the name Lancastre as one of his names, and this became garbled.

Manuel II gave some titles in exile (such as Duke to Nobile D. Luigi Dusmet de
Smours, in 1924) and these titles have usually but not always been confirmed by
the Conselho de Nobreza. The Conselho has also recognized titles given by
Umberto II to Portuguese citizens, and one granted by Archduke Otto in 1950
(Conde de Saldanha de Gama, to D. Jose Luis de Saldanha e Gama and his son
Alexnader, by Letter of 29 may 1950, confirmed by the CN 20 Oct 1973).

The principal family of Lancastre descends from the natural son of João II,
Jorge de Lancastre, Duque of Coimbra, in the male line. The head of the family
until 1962 was Luis João de Lancastre Basto Baharem, 6th Conde de Lousã (created
27 March 1765), but when he died the Lousã title passed to his daughter, D.
Sofia Bleck de Lancastre, who married in 1927 Fausto de Saavedra y del Collado,
3rd Marques de Viana and grandee of Spain, Duke of la Roca and grandee of Spain,
11th marques de Coquilla, etc (these titles have passed by inheritance to the
latter’s great nephew, the Duke of Pendaranda de Duero, Duke of Berwick in the
peerage of England).

The present heir to the title of Conde de Lousã is Neville Houssemayne du
Boulay, son of Colonel Arthur Houssemayne du Boulay, DSO, and Blanche Laura
Hornung (later Lady (Hugh) Jamiesen Elles.

Sine the death of the 6th Conde de Lousã, male presentation has passed to a
cousin, D. Antonio Perez Quesada de Lancastre, born in 1952.

The title of Visconde, then Conde de Lancastre, was created for D. Antonio
Manuel de Lancastre e Saldanha (not Soldana), 2nd son of the 2nd count of Lousã,
who in 1873 married Adelina Luisa Hersey, widow of the 7th Earl of Cardigan,
daughter of Spencer Hersey de Hersey (as he styled himself) and Lady Louisa
Cornwallis, 2nd daughter of the 2nd Marquess Cornwallis. They had no issue,
however, and the Conselho de Nobreza decided in 1978 that the title should pass
to the grandson of a younger son of the 4th Conde de Lousã, D. Antonio de Sousa
e Faro de Lancastre (1908-deceased)

The 2nd Conde Lancastre, died without issue, was married to D. Maria Jose
Burnay, daughter of D. Roberto Burnay and his cousin and wife Ida Burnay, of the
Condes de Burnay (a family of Luxembourg origin). His brother, married to Maria
Jose Burnay’s sister, left two daughters, the elder of whom is representative of
the title of Condes de Lancastre (Maria João Burnay de Lancastre, born 1934,
married 1954 Carlos Eugenio Lourenço, with issue), but I do not know whether the
Conselho de Nobreza has confirmed this succession, or more logically to the
senior male representative of Lancastre.

But there are other Lancastres, not necessarily descended in the male line from
the Duke of Coimbra, who are titled, and perhaps the marriage in question was to
one of these and the title garbled. The present (11th) Marques de Abrantes is D.
Luis-Gonzaga de Lanastre e Tavora, by decision of the Conselho de Nobreza of
1963, also Marques de Fontes and 18th Conde de Penaguião (this ceded to his
eldest son), CN 1967, and representative of the Dukes of Abrantes (one of the
ducal titles with a term limit; this may have been authorized as the dukedom
subsequently, which the CN has done in some other cases). His son and heir is D.
José Maria de Lancastre e Távora, 15th Conde de Vila Nova de Portimão (CN 1979).

There are female line Henriques de Lancastre, a cadet line of the Condes das
Alcáçovas; the name of the Conde de Arrochela is “de Arrochela Pinto de
Lancastre Faerrão” neither were originally Lancastre titles.

D. Sebastião-Manuel de Lancastre, is 5th conde de Guarda (CN 1979), but this was
not originally a Lancastre title and he is the first Lancastre holder.

Guy Stair Sainty
www.chivalricorders.org/index3.htm
Donald Renouf
2003-09-25 00:11:35 UTC
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Post by Guy Stair Sainty
The title of Visconde, then Conde de Lancastre, was created for D. Antonio
Manuel de Lancastre e Saldanha (not Soldana), 2nd son of the 2nd count of Lousã,
who in 1873 married Adelina Luisa Hersey, widow of the 7th Earl of Cardigan,
daughter of Spencer Hersey de Hersey (as he styled himself) and Lady Louisa
Cornwallis, 2nd daughter of the 2nd Marquess Cornwallis.
I had thought that Adelina Horsey's mother was a daughter of the Earl
of Stradbroke, not the Marquess Cornwallis.
Guy Stair Sainty
2003-09-25 13:01:39 UTC
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In article <***@posting.google.com>, Donald Renouf
says...
Post by Donald Renouf
Post by Guy Stair Sainty
The title of Visconde, then Conde de Lancastre, was created for D. Antonio
Manuel de Lancastre e Saldanha (not Soldana), 2nd son of the 2nd count of Lousã,
who in 1873 married Adelina Luisa Hersey, widow of the 7th Earl of Cardigan,
daughter of Spencer Hersey de Hersey (as he styled himself) and Lady Louisa
Cornwallis, 2nd daughter of the 2nd Marquess Cornwallis.
I had thought that Adelina Horsey's mother was a daughter of the Earl
of Stradbroke, not the Marquess Cornwallis.
You are absolutely correctt (when I check Burke's); but strangely this is what
is given in the Portuguese sources! My Burke's extinct Peerages does not
list Lady Louisa Cornwallis as married yet, which is where I looked to
follow up the Cornwallis reference given in the Portuguese source. I wonder
wherew this came from? I see from Burke's that Adelina was indeed the daughter
of this marriage; was Spencer Horsey married twice, to two Lady Louisa's?

Guy Stair Sainty
www.chivalricorders.org/index3.htm
m***@gmail.com
2013-05-09 18:30:54 UTC
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Post by Steven Robb
Does anyone have any information on the later branches of the
Portugese family who used the title Count de Lancastro / Lancastre,
(having been descended from Phillipa, daughter of John of Gaunt
(1340-1399) and his wife Blanche of Lancaster, heiress to the Duchy of
Lancaster - John II of Portugal (1455-1495)had an illegitimate son
with his mistress Ana de Mendoza, Jorge de Lancastre (1481-1550) who
was the progenitor of the de Lancastre family )
In 1873 Don Antonio Manuel de Lancastre Soldana, Count de Lancastre,
married Louise Maria Brudnenell, nee de Horsey (1862-1915), widow of
the 7th Earl of Cardigan, of Light Brigade fame. But the sister of
the Sobieski Stuart brothers, Countess Matilda Boisquet de la
Fleuriere nee Allen, also married (as her second husband) a
Lancastre/Lancastro - Count Ferdinand Montesino de Lancastro, Count de
Lancastro, and their son took the name Charles Ferdinand Montesino de
Lancastro-Stuart et d'Albanie (1844-1873). Does anyone know whether
Matilda's husbands title was as bogus as her brothers, or did she
really marry two foreign Counts ?
steven
e***@yahoo.fr
2013-05-09 19:43:02 UTC
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Post by Steven Robb
Does anyone have any information on the later branches of the
Portugese family who used the title Count de Lancastro / Lancastre,
(having been descended from Phillipa, daughter of John of Gaunt
(1340-1399) and his wife Blanche of Lancaster, heiress to the Duchy of
Lancaster - John II of Portugal (1455-1495)had an illegitimate son
with his mistress Ana de Mendoza, Jorge de Lancastre (1481-1550) who
was the progenitor of the de Lancastre family )
In 1873 Don Antonio Manuel de Lancastre Soldana, Count de Lancastre,
married Louise Maria Brudnenell, nee de Horsey (1862-1915), widow of
the 7th Earl of Cardigan, of Light Brigade fame. But the sister of
the Sobieski Stuart brothers, Countess Matilda Boisquet de la
Fleuriere nee Allen, also married (as her second husband) a
Lancastre/Lancastro - Count Ferdinand Montesino de Lancastro, Count de
Lancastro, and their son took the name Charles Ferdinand Montesino de
Lancastro-Stuart et d'Albanie (1844-1873). Does anyone know whether
Matilda's husbands title was as bogus as her brothers, or did she
really marry two foreign Counts ?
steven
e***@yahoo.fr
2013-05-10 08:29:22 UTC
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Post by Steven Robb
Does anyone have any information on the later branches of the
Portugese family who used the title Count de Lancastro / Lancastre,
(having been descended from Phillipa, daughter of John of Gaunt
(1340-1399) and his wife Blanche of Lancaster, heiress to the Duchy of
Lancaster - John II of Portugal (1455-1495)had an illegitimate son
with his mistress Ana de Mendoza, Jorge de Lancastre (1481-1550) who
was the progenitor of the de Lancastre family )
In 1873 Don Antonio Manuel de Lancastre Soldana, Count de Lancastre,
married Louise Maria Brudnenell, nee de Horsey (1862-1915), widow of
the 7th Earl of Cardigan, of Light Brigade fame. But the sister of
the Sobieski Stuart brothers, Countess Matilda Boisquet de la
Fleuriere nee Allen, also married (as her second husband) a
Lancastre/Lancastro - Count Ferdinand Montesino de Lancastro, Count de
Lancastro, and their son took the name Charles Ferdinand Montesino de
Lancastro-Stuart et d'Albanie (1844-1873). Does anyone know whether
Matilda's husbands title was as bogus as her brothers, or did she
really marry two foreign Counts ?
steven
edespalais/ Count Gudenus:
technical error!
p***@gmail.com
2018-05-07 12:13:53 UTC
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Hi,

I had the pleasure of meeting several members of the Condes de Lancastre family and actually the last countess, Maria João Burnay de Lancastre Lourenço, who died some years ago in a terrible and very shoking accident, in Oeiras. I can tell the Conselho de Nobreza accepted her claim and she was very proud of it.
She had a son Pedro and 2 daughters and I don't know if anyone of them took the title back, beeing Pedro the eldest son an possibly the heir. I can confirm some of the things said before regarding the Condes de Lousã until their sons became Condes de Lancastre. Other than that I know nothing.
I also had the greatest pleasure in meting the old countess of Lancastre Maria José Burnay de Lancastre, and her 2 sisters: Maria Teresa Burnay de Lancastre e Maria Luisa Burnay de Lancastre Soares Cardoso.
I also got know in this generation (unfortunately all died) the other part of the family: Condes de Caria. The daughter of the 2nd earl of Lancastre, and sister of the 3rd earl, Maria Carlota de Sousa e Faro de Lancastre. I hope this helped a bit
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