Discussion:
Beckendorff Family & the Romanovs
(too old to reply)
dca
2004-01-01 12:16:33 UTC
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Hi, I've begun to notice how often the Beckendorff family name comes up when
researching various members of the Romanov family. Just today, reading
about Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich, I noticed that Nicholas I asked a
Beckendorff (Alexander, I believe) to speak to Michael about his abuse of
the troops under his command (The Grand Dukes, David Chavchavadze, Pg46). I
am wondering if this is the same Beckendorff family that was at the court of
Nicholas II? I've read a couple other references (related to the
Beckendorff family and other Tsars) as well, but don't have the details in
front of me right now.

Anyway, my question - Does anyone know of a resource (web or otherwise)
related to this family? A google search produced a few more than a thousand
entries with the "Beckendorff" spelling. Before I start sifting through
them and trying other spelling I was wondering if someone knew of something
specific?

Many thanks, in advance, for your help.

dca
Don Aitken
2004-01-01 16:17:31 UTC
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Post by dca
Hi, I've begun to notice how often the Beckendorff family name comes up when
researching various members of the Romanov family. Just today, reading
about Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich, I noticed that Nicholas I asked a
Beckendorff (Alexander, I believe) to speak to Michael about his abuse of
the troops under his command (The Grand Dukes, David Chavchavadze, Pg46). I
am wondering if this is the same Beckendorff family that was at the court of
Nicholas II? I've read a couple other references (related to the
Beckendorff family and other Tsars) as well, but don't have the details in
front of me right now.
Anyway, my question - Does anyone know of a resource (web or otherwise)
related to this family? A google search produced a few more than a thousand
entries with the "Beckendorff" spelling. Before I start sifting through
them and trying other spelling I was wondering if someone knew of something
specific?
Before Googling, it pays to get the spelling right - and where
transliteration is involved, try a few variants. The usual English
version is Benckendorff, which I think corresponds to the original
German version of the name. See, for example,
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/lastdays/intro.html . You will also
find Benkendorff, and both with a single rather than a double 'f'.
--
Don Aitken

Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".
dca
2004-01-01 17:26:03 UTC
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Don - thank you - for clarity's sake I took this particular spelling
directly from Chavchavadze's book. But I concur that there are multiple
spellings which will result in a larger goggle lookup - hence my interest in
finding someone who might know of a resource specifically related to this
family.

dca
Post by Don Aitken
Post by dca
Hi, I've begun to notice how often the Beckendorff family name comes up when
researching various members of the Romanov family. Just today, reading
about Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich, I noticed that Nicholas I asked a
Beckendorff (Alexander, I believe) to speak to Michael about his abuse of
the troops under his command (The Grand Dukes, David Chavchavadze, Pg46).
I
Post by Don Aitken
Post by dca
am wondering if this is the same Beckendorff family that was at the court of
Nicholas II? I've read a couple other references (related to the
Beckendorff family and other Tsars) as well, but don't have the details in
front of me right now.
Anyway, my question - Does anyone know of a resource (web or otherwise)
related to this family? A google search produced a few more than a thousand
entries with the "Beckendorff" spelling. Before I start sifting through
them and trying other spelling I was wondering if someone knew of something
specific?
Before Googling, it pays to get the spelling right - and where
transliteration is involved, try a few variants. The usual English
version is Benckendorff, which I think corresponds to the original
German version of the name. See, for example,
http://www.alexanderpalace.org/lastdays/intro.html . You will also
find Benkendorff, and both with a single rather than a double 'f'.
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the addresses given in the headers is no longer being
read. To mail me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com".
Grant Menzies
2004-01-01 18:25:15 UTC
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Post by dca
Don - thank you - for clarity's sake I took this particular spelling
directly from Chavchavadze's book. But I concur that there are multiple
spellings which will result in a larger goggle lookup - hence my interest in
finding someone who might know of a resource specifically related to this
family.
Dominic, I have another bit of advice to impart: Chavchavadze's book
is so riddled with typos, among other enormities, that it always pays
to check another source (or two) before going with anything you find
in _The Grand Dukes_.... just a word from the wised-up ;-)

Grant
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Grant Menzies
=-=-=-=-=-=-=

http://www.authorsden.com/grantmmenzies
dca
2004-01-01 21:12:03 UTC
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Ahhh - consider me abit wiser - for those of us without language training it
is good to know that not all those various spelling variations are correct!

Thanks and Happy New Years!

dca
Post by Grant Menzies
Post by dca
Don - thank you - for clarity's sake I took this particular spelling
directly from Chavchavadze's book. But I concur that there are multiple
spellings which will result in a larger goggle lookup - hence my interest in
finding someone who might know of a resource specifically related to this
family.
Dominic, I have another bit of advice to impart: Chavchavadze's book
is so riddled with typos, among other enormities, that it always pays
to check another source (or two) before going with anything you find
in _The Grand Dukes_.... just a word from the wised-up ;-)
Grant
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Grant Menzies
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
http://www.authorsden.com/grantmmenzies
Lisa Davidson
2004-01-01 19:56:46 UTC
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Dominic:

The Beckendorffs are one of many Baltic German families who served the tsars in
Imperial Russia. It is very likely to two Beckendorffs were related. These
families worked for the tsars and also intermarried with one another. The Count
B. who served Nicholas II, for example, had a Schilling von Canstatt mother
(just as I have an SVC grandmother and Grant M various SVC ancestors).

But, to answer your question, I don't know of any particular web sites that
would be helpful in researching this family. I know the SVC's have a family
union, and perhaps the Beckendorffs do, too?

Happy New Year!

Lisa Davidson
Post by dca
Hi, I've begun to notice how often the Beckendorff family name comes up when
researching various members of the Romanov family. Just today, reading
about Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich, I noticed that Nicholas I asked a
Beckendorff (Alexander, I believe) to speak to Michael about his abuse of
the troops under his command (The Grand Dukes, David Chavchavadze, Pg46). I
am wondering if this is the same Beckendorff family that was at the court of
Nicholas II? I've read a couple other references (related to the
Beckendorff family and other Tsars) as well, but don't have the details in
front of me right now.
Anyway, my question - Does anyone know of a resource (web or otherwise)
related to this family? A google search produced a few more than a thousand
entries with the "Beckendorff" spelling. Before I start sifting through
them and trying other spelling I was wondering if someone knew of something
specific?
Many thanks, in advance, for your help.
dca
Grant Menzies
2004-01-01 20:47:24 UTC
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Post by Lisa Davidson
The Beckendorffs are one of many Baltic German families who served the tsars in
Imperial Russia. It is very likely to two Beckendorffs were related. These
families worked for the tsars and also intermarried with one another. The Count
B. who served Nicholas II, for example, had a Schilling von Canstatt mother
(just as I have an SVC grandmother and Grant M various SVC ancestors).
And a few Nesselrode relatives in Russian service - namely Nesselrode
of the famous Pudding :-)

Grant
=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Grant Menzies
=-=-=-=-=-=-=

http://www.authorsden.com/grantmmenzies
dca
2004-01-01 21:32:38 UTC
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I'll check into it. Thanks Lisa, and Happy New Year to you as well!
Post by Lisa Davidson
The Beckendorffs are one of many Baltic German families who served the tsars in
Imperial Russia. It is very likely to two Beckendorffs were related. These
families worked for the tsars and also intermarried with one another. The Count
B. who served Nicholas II, for example, had a Schilling von Canstatt mother
(just as I have an SVC grandmother and Grant M various SVC ancestors).
But, to answer your question, I don't know of any particular web sites that
would be helpful in researching this family. I know the SVC's have a family
union, and perhaps the Beckendorffs do, too?
Happy New Year!
Lisa Davidson
Post by dca
Hi, I've begun to notice how often the Beckendorff family name comes up when
researching various members of the Romanov family. Just today, reading
about Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich, I noticed that Nicholas I asked a
Beckendorff (Alexander, I believe) to speak to Michael about his abuse of
the troops under his command (The Grand Dukes, David Chavchavadze, Pg46). I
am wondering if this is the same Beckendorff family that was at the court of
Nicholas II? I've read a couple other references (related to the
Beckendorff family and other Tsars) as well, but don't have the details in
front of me right now.
Anyway, my question - Does anyone know of a resource (web or otherwise)
related to this family? A google search produced a few more than a thousand
entries with the "Beckendorff" spelling. Before I start sifting through
them and trying other spelling I was wondering if someone knew of something
specific?
Many thanks, in advance, for your help.
dca
John Kendrick
2004-01-02 03:16:36 UTC
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Post by Lisa Davidson
The Beckendorffs are one of many Baltic German families who served the tsars in
Imperial Russia. It is very likely to two Beckendorffs were related. These
families worked for the tsars and also intermarried with one another. The Count
B. who served Nicholas II, for example, had a Schilling von Canstatt mother
(just as I have an SVC grandmother and Grant M various SVC ancestors).
But, to answer your question, I don't know of any particular web sites that
would be helpful in researching this family. I know the SVC's have a family
union, and perhaps the Beckendorffs do, too?
Happy New Year!
Lisa Davidson
The family tree traces back to Johannes Benkendorp in Salzwedel, first
mentioned in documents dating to the year 1280 and believed to have
been born in 1240.

Most recently, the Benckendorff Family Association executive members
were:

1. Chairperson: Helmutt Benckendorff, Buxtehude, Germany
2. Chairperson: Elisabeth Pfeiffer (nee Benneckendorf)
Beyendorf-Sohlen, Germany

Genealogy:
1. Wolfgang Benkendorff, Los Alcazares, Spain
2. Bernhard Benckendorff, Iffeldorf, Germany

Treasurer
1. Martin Benkendorff, Bad Vibel, Germany

Spelling variations:
Benkendorp
Benckendorphe
Benkendorpen
Benkendorff
Benckendorff
Bennckendorff
Bennckendorpff
Beneckendorff
Benneckendorpff
Pennkendorf
Post by Lisa Davidson
Post by dca
Hi, I've begun to notice how often the Beckendorff family name comes up when
researching various members of the Romanov family. Just today, reading
about Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich, I noticed that Nicholas I asked a
Beckendorff (Alexander, I believe) to speak to Michael about his abuse of
the troops under his command (The Grand Dukes, David Chavchavadze, Pg46). I
am wondering if this is the same Beckendorff family that was at the court of
Nicholas II? I've read a couple other references (related to the
Beckendorff family and other Tsars) as well, but don't have the details in
front of me right now.
Anyway, my question - Does anyone know of a resource (web or otherwise)
related to this family? A google search produced a few more than a thousand
entries with the "Beckendorff" spelling. Before I start sifting through
them and trying other spelling I was wondering if someone knew of something
specific?
Many thanks, in advance, for your help.
dca
coeurdelion
2004-01-02 03:47:31 UTC
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Post by Lisa Davidson
The Beckendorffs are one of many Baltic German families who served the tsars in
Imperial Russia. It is very likely to two Beckendorffs were related. These
families worked for the tsars and also intermarried with one another. The Count
B. who served Nicholas II, for example, had a Schilling von Canstatt mother
(just as I have an SVC grandmother and Grant M various SVC ancestors).
But, to answer your question, I don't know of any particular web sites that
would be helpful in researching this family. I know the SVC's have a family
union, and perhaps the Beckendorffs do, too?
Happy New Year!
Lisa Davidson
The Benckendorff's genealogy (the c is optional, while any variants
omitting the n seem to be due to faulty transliteration) is in Frank
Baron Freytag von Loringhoven (ed.), Europäische Stammtafeln, 2nd ed.,
vol.IV, 98, Marburg 1968. Christoph v. Benckendorff (1749-1823), the
son of a Russian Lieut.-Gen. and of the governess of Alexander I,
married Anna Juliane Freiin (i.e. Baroness) Schilling v. Cannstatt
(1744-1797) in 1780; she came from a well-known Württemberg (i.e.
South-West-German, not Baltic) family and had been appointed a maid of
honour to the future Russian Empress Marie (born pcss. Sophie
Doroithea of Württemberg) because her cousin, Countess Franziska v.
Hohenheim (divorced Baroness Leutrum v. Ertingen, née Bernerdin v.
Pernthurn) was the morganatic wife of the princess' uncle, ruling Duke
Carl Eugen of Württemberg. All future Russian Benkendorffs are
descended from this couple's two sons Alexander (1781-1844, made a
count in 1832 and head of the imperial secret service) and Konstantin
(1787-1828), whilst their daughter Dorothea (1783-1857) was the famous
princess Lieven, Metternich's close friend and wife to the Russian
ambassador at London. Since Alexander only left daughters (countess
Apponyi [whose husband was Austrian ambasador to London and whsoe
daughter later became pcss. Borghese], pcss. Volkonskaya and pcss.
Kotchoubey), his brother's line alone remained. Konstantin's only son
Konstantin (1817-1878) was made a count with his uncle in 1832, became
a Russian Maj.-Gen. and married pcss. Johanna of Croy (ex matre
Salm-Salm,1825-1890) in 1848; his daughters pcss. Hatzfeldt and
marchesa Giuccioli both married foreign diplomats, his son Paul
(1854-1928, married s.p. to pcss. M.S. Dolgorukaya) was a Russian
General of Cavalry and Oberhofmarschall (roughly equivalent to
Vice-Chamberlain of the Household) and his elder son Alexander
(1849-1916) died as Russian ambassador to London; from his marriage to
countess S.P. Shouvalova, he had two sons Konstantin (b.1880,
apparently the last of his line and unmarried?), Peter (b.1882, killed
in action in 1915 and married s.p. to J.D. Narishkina) as well as a
daughter Natalia (1886-1968), who in 1911 married the Hon. Sir
Nicholas Ridley and left issue (cf Burke's Peerage, 1970 ed., p.2264).
Best wishes (and greetings to all those Schilling von Canstatt
descendants from another expatriate Württemberger),

Leonhard Horowski
Lisa Davidson
2004-01-02 06:45:29 UTC
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Thank you for the genealogical information on the B's and SVC's. My grandmother told me there were
Baltic Schillings and German Schillings, and I understand there was a family reunion of the Baltic
Schillings in 2002. The various branches are all related and in some cases have intermarried. She
also told me many of those in Europe were in the service of the tsar, including the Beckendorff
cousin.

My great great grandfather, Baron Wilhelm Heinrich Schilling von Canstatt, was living in Virginia
when the Civil War broke out. He was conscripted into the Confederate Army. Because he knew so many
languages, he was made Company Clerk to General Stonewall Jackson and served the general with as much
distinction as possible. The General was killed at (so the story goes) Second Bull Run. The Baron was
imprisoned by the Yankees for only a very short time. The reason? His prison commandant was another
SVC, who wrote the President and offered his resignation because he could not imprison his cousin.
Mr. Lincoln instead pardoned the Baron, who came to California after the war as Will Schilling.

Will had two sons, Will and Fritz. Fritz and family settled in the Santa Barbara area and started the
company that became Schilling Spice Company - now known as McCormick. His son Will founded a
mercantile in Long Beach which was later sold to Col. Buffam - which became Buffam's - since closed.
Young Will's youngest child was my grandmother, Barbara Schilling.

The epilogue to all of this - my mother attended a conference in Virginia several years ago and came
upon some Civil War re-enactors. One came up to her and said he was portraying Stonewall Jackson's
company clerk! So of course he wanted to know all about her great grandfather.

The point here is that these two families - wherever they may be - seem to be supporting those in
power. It's uncanny how this trait carries through to nearly every generation!

Lisa Davidson
Post by coeurdelion
Post by Lisa Davidson
The Beckendorffs are one of many Baltic German families who served the tsars in
Imperial Russia. It is very likely to two Beckendorffs were related. These
families worked for the tsars and also intermarried with one another. The Count
B. who served Nicholas II, for example, had a Schilling von Canstatt mother
(just as I have an SVC grandmother and Grant M various SVC ancestors).
But, to answer your question, I don't know of any particular web sites that
would be helpful in researching this family. I know the SVC's have a family
union, and perhaps the Beckendorffs do, too?
Happy New Year!
Lisa Davidson
The Benckendorff's genealogy (the c is optional, while any variants
omitting the n seem to be due to faulty transliteration) is in Frank
Baron Freytag von Loringhoven (ed.), Europäische Stammtafeln, 2nd ed.,
vol.IV, 98, Marburg 1968. Christoph v. Benckendorff (1749-1823), the
son of a Russian Lieut.-Gen. and of the governess of Alexander I,
married Anna Juliane Freiin (i.e. Baroness) Schilling v. Cannstatt
(1744-1797) in 1780; she came from a well-known Württemberg (i.e.
South-West-German, not Baltic) family and had been appointed a maid of
honour to the future Russian Empress Marie (born pcss. Sophie
Doroithea of Württemberg) because her cousin, Countess Franziska v.
Hohenheim (divorced Baroness Leutrum v. Ertingen, née Bernerdin v.
Pernthurn) was the morganatic wife of the princess' uncle, ruling Duke
Carl Eugen of Württemberg. All future Russian Benkendorffs are
descended from this couple's two sons Alexander (1781-1844, made a
count in 1832 and head of the imperial secret service) and Konstantin
(1787-1828), whilst their daughter Dorothea (1783-1857) was the famous
princess Lieven, Metternich's close friend and wife to the Russian
ambassador at London. Since Alexander only left daughters (countess
Apponyi [whose husband was Austrian ambasador to London and whsoe
daughter later became pcss. Borghese], pcss. Volkonskaya and pcss.
Kotchoubey), his brother's line alone remained. Konstantin's only son
Konstantin (1817-1878) was made a count with his uncle in 1832, became
a Russian Maj.-Gen. and married pcss. Johanna of Croy (ex matre
Salm-Salm,1825-1890) in 1848; his daughters pcss. Hatzfeldt and
marchesa Giuccioli both married foreign diplomats, his son Paul
(1854-1928, married s.p. to pcss. M.S. Dolgorukaya) was a Russian
General of Cavalry and Oberhofmarschall (roughly equivalent to
Vice-Chamberlain of the Household) and his elder son Alexander
(1849-1916) died as Russian ambassador to London; from his marriage to
countess S.P. Shouvalova, he had two sons Konstantin (b.1880,
apparently the last of his line and unmarried?), Peter (b.1882, killed
in action in 1915 and married s.p. to J.D. Narishkina) as well as a
daughter Natalia (1886-1968), who in 1911 married the Hon. Sir
Nicholas Ridley and left issue (cf Burke's Peerage, 1970 ed., p.2264).
Best wishes (and greetings to all those Schilling von Canstatt
descendants from another expatriate Württemberger),
Leonhard Horowski
Shinjinee
2004-01-02 07:20:46 UTC
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***@gmx.net (coeurdelion) wrote in message news:<***@posting.google.com>...
. Konstantin's only son
Post by coeurdelion
Konstantin (1817-1878) was made a count with his uncle in 1832, became
a Russian Maj.-Gen. and married pcss. Johanna of Croy (ex matre
Salm-Salm,1825-1890) in 1848; his daughters pcss. Hatzfeldt and
marchesa Giuccioli both married foreign diplomats, his son Paul
(1854-1928, married s.p. to pcss. M.S. Dolgorukaya) was a Russian
General of Cavalry and Oberhofmarschall (roughly equivalent to
Vice-Chamberlain of the Household) and his elder son Alexander
(1849-1916) died as Russian ambassador to London; from his marriage to
countess S.P. Shouvalova, he had two sons Konstantin (b.1880,
apparently the last of his line and unmarried?), Peter (b.1882, killed
in action in 1915 and married s.p. to J.D. Narishkina) as well as a
daughter Natalia (1886-1968), who in 1911 married the Hon. Sir
Nicholas Ridley and left issue (cf Burke's Peerage, 1970 ed., p.2264).
Best wishes (and greetings to all those Schilling von Canstatt
descendants from another expatriate Württemberger),
Leonhard Horowski
Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that most if not all the
descendants are listed in Paul Theroff's King James VI & I files
(since the Salm and Croy princesses were descendants).

Among Natalia Benckendorff's descendants were Jasper Ridley (killed
during an escape attempt in Italy 1940s), who was friend to Sir Isaiah
Berlin and husband of Cressida Bonham-Carter (1st daughter of Violet
Bonham Carter, a life peeress in her own right, and granddaughter of
H.H. Asquith aka 1st Earl of Oxford and Asquith. Cressida Ridley's
obituary appeared in the Daily Telegraph in the late 1990s.

Their only son Sir Adam Ridley (b ca 1942) was a participant in one of
Mrs Thatcher's favorite think-tanks, married 1stly (now div) his
second cousin Lady Katherine Asquith (now remarried), 2nd daughter of
the 2nd Earl of Oxford and Asquith, and has since remarried. Adam
Ridley is now involved with one of those committees post-Lloyd's
debacles, but I no longer remember the details. Further information
is probably available in Who's Who, although his entry omitted all
details of his first marriage. As for his uncles and other relatives,
looking under Ridley V might help. IIRC, he had two uncles.

Shinjinee
Gilbert von Studnitz
2004-01-02 05:57:07 UTC
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Post by Lisa Davidson
The Count
B. who served Nicholas II, for example, had a Schilling von Canstatt mother
(just as I have an SVC grandmother and Grant M various SVC ancestors).
While I have no SvC ancestors that I know of, I do have various quite far back
Benckendorff ancestors, lastly Elisabeth (+ 1649), d. of Prof. Dr. Martin B.
(1545-1621). In 1598 she had married Prof. Dr. Jacob Schickfuss von Neudorff
Gilbert von Studnitz
Steven Lavallee
2004-01-02 01:47:18 UTC
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Post by dca
Anyway, my question - Does anyone know of a resource (web or otherwise)
related to this family? A google search produced a few more than a thousand
entries with the "Beckendorff" spelling.
It's BENCKendorff, not Beckendorff.

See the article "Benckendorff" in
"Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels,"
volume 63: Gräfliche häuser VIII (1976), pages 28-31.
The survivng members of the family are British-born.

Steven
Mrs Windsor
2004-01-02 17:38:44 UTC
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this is the first time I have seen anything on this site about David and Victoria
they will be thrilled with all of this attention
dca
2004-01-03 12:24:56 UTC
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Thanks to all of you for the great information. This has been helpful and
informative.

best,
dca
Post by dca
Hi, I've begun to notice how often the Beckendorff family name comes up when
researching various members of the Romanov family. Just today, reading
about Grand Duke Michael Pavlovich, I noticed that Nicholas I asked a
Beckendorff (Alexander, I believe) to speak to Michael about his abuse of
the troops under his command (The Grand Dukes, David Chavchavadze, Pg46).
I
Post by dca
am wondering if this is the same Beckendorff family that was at the court of
Nicholas II? I've read a couple other references (related to the
Beckendorff family and other Tsars) as well, but don't have the details in
front of me right now.
Anyway, my question - Does anyone know of a resource (web or otherwise)
related to this family? A google search produced a few more than a thousand
entries with the "Beckendorff" spelling. Before I start sifting through
them and trying other spelling I was wondering if someone knew of something
specific?
Many thanks, in advance, for your help.
dca
p***@gmail.com
2018-04-22 18:04:46 UTC
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Hello...Im just getting into my family history (Benkendorf) and its very interesting. Ill be following this thread closely thx so much for any info provided
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