Discussion:
Meghan Markle's half-sister slams her for denying father a coat of arms: ‘It’s a huge insult’
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Miloch
2018-05-29 13:29:15 UTC
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http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/28/meghan-markles-half-sister-slams-her-for-denying-father-coat-arms-it-s-huge-insult.html

Meghan Markle’s half-sister is calling out the royal family for not giving her
dad a coat of arms in the same way the Middleton family was.

“To exclude him of a coat of arms is really stripping him of an honor and it’s a
huge insult,” Samantha Markle Grant said, the Telegraph UK reported.

Kate Middleton’s father, Michael, was given his own coat of arms after his
daughter married Prince William in 2011 and became the Duchess of Cambridge. Not
only is she entitled to use his coat, her siblings and her brother’s children
are as well.

But the Queen deemed the process this time around too “complicated,” since to
qualify for a heraldic coat of arms, one must prove they have an ancestor who
was a subject of the Crown, according to the Daily Mail.

Instead, the new Duchess of Sussex, Markle, 36, will be given her own coat of
arms, which won’t apply to the rest of her American family, the Mail reported.

But her sister still considers this a royal snub.




go Warriors!
*
Lori
2018-05-29 14:37:19 UTC
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Post by Miloch
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/28/meghan-markles-half-sister-slams-her-for-denying-father-coat-arms-it-s-huge-insult.html
Meghan Markle’s half-sister is calling out the royal family for not giving her
dad a coat of arms in the same way the Middleton family was.
“To exclude him of a coat of arms is really stripping him of an honor and it’s a
huge insult,” Samantha Markle Grant said, the Telegraph UK reported.
Kate Middleton’s father, Michael, was given his own coat of arms after his
daughter married Prince William in 2011 and became the Duchess of Cambridge. Not
only is she entitled to use his coat, her siblings and her brother’s children
are as well.
But the Queen deemed the process this time around too “complicated,” since to
qualify for a heraldic coat of arms, one must prove they have an ancestor who
was a subject of the Crown, according to the Daily Mail.
Instead, the new Duchess of Sussex, Markle, 36, will be given her own coat of
arms, which won’t apply to the rest of her American family, the Mail reported.
But her sister still considers this a royal snub.
go Warriors!
*
Really sick of reading about the Markle siblings. Why don't they crawl back under the rocks they came from?
n***@gmail.com
2018-05-30 03:18:26 UTC
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Post by Miloch
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/28/meghan-markles-half-sister-slams-her-for-denying-father-coat-arms-it-s-huge-insult.html
Meghan Markle’s half-sister is calling out the royal family for not giving her
dad a coat of arms in the same way the Middleton family was.
“To exclude him of a coat of arms is really stripping him of an honor and it’s a
huge insult,” Samantha Markle Grant said, the Telegraph UK reported.
Kate Middleton’s father, Michael, was given his own coat of arms after his
daughter married Prince William in 2011 and became the Duchess of Cambridge. Not
only is she entitled to use his coat, her siblings and her brother’s children
are as well.
But the Queen deemed the process this time around too “complicated,” since to
qualify for a heraldic coat of arms, one must prove they have an ancestor who
was a subject of the Crown, according to the Daily Mail.
Instead, the new Duchess of Sussex, Markle, 36, will be given her own coat of
arms, which won’t apply to the rest of her American family, the Mail reported.
But her sister still considers this a royal snub.
go Warriors!
*
IIRC Kate's COA was actually paid for by the family. The official terminology is that it's a "grant," but to get the grant you have to pay petition the local King of Arms. In England that's £6,075. That would be $8k US. The Middletons had a mail order business which did pretty well, so they could just pay the fee. If you're Scots you can use the Lord Lyon (£1,745 or $2,300US), Meghan herself could probably personally have used the Canadian Heraldic Authority (roughly $2,400Can, which is $1,800US).

Mr. Markle very clearly has plenty of ancestors who were qualified for an English Coat of Arms because his US ancestry goes back to the Pilgrims, so if the English Kings of Arms insisted on that it would not have been a problem. He also has Scots ancestry, so even the much fussier Lord Lyon would have granted him a CoA.

My suspicion is that a) an American showbiz guy did not know he was supposed to do this, and b) given that he declared bankruptcy in '16 he probably did not have the cash sitting around.

Nick
Windemere
2018-05-30 20:10:48 UTC
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Post by Miloch
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/28/meghan-markles-half-sister-slams-her-for-denying-father-coat-arms-it-s-huge-insult.html
Meghan Markle’s half-sister is calling out the royal family for not giving her
dad a coat of arms in the same way the Middleton family was.
“To exclude him of a coat of arms is really stripping him of an honor and it’s a
huge insult,” Samantha Markle Grant said, the Telegraph UK reported.
Kate Middleton’s father, Michael, was given his own coat of arms after his
daughter married Prince William in 2011 and became the Duchess of Cambridge. Not
only is she entitled to use his coat, her siblings and her brother’s children
are as well.
But the Queen deemed the process this time around too “complicated,” since to
qualify for a heraldic coat of arms, one must prove they have an ancestor who
was a subject of the Crown, according to the Daily Mail.
Instead, the new Duchess of Sussex, Markle, 36, will be given her own coat of
arms, which won’t apply to the rest of her American family, the Mail reported.
But her sister still considers this a royal snub.
go Warriors!
*
IIRC Kate's COA was actually paid for by the family. The official terminology is that it's a "grant," but to get the grant you have to pay petition the local King of Arms. In England that's £6,075. That would be $8k US. The Middletons had a mail order business which did pretty well, so they could just pay the fee. If you're Scots you can use the Lord Lyon (£1,745 or $2,300US), Meghan herself could probably personally have used the Canadian Heraldic Authority (roughly $2,400Can, which is $1,800US).
Mr. Markle very clearly has plenty of ancestors who were qualified for an English Coat of Arms because his US ancestry goes back to the Pilgrims, so if the English Kings of Arms insisted on that it would not have been a problem. He also has Scots ancestry, so even the much fussier Lord Lyon would have granted him a CoA.
My suspicion is that a) an American showbiz guy did not know he was supposed to do this, and b) given that he declared bankruptcy in '16 he probably did not have the cash sitting around.
Nick
Here's a lineage (from Genealogics.org) for one set of Meghan's paternal ancestors, which goes a long way back, and shows they were subjects of the English Crown:

Thomas Meryell (b. 1444, Suffolk, England) father of:
John Meryell (b. circa 1475, Suffolk, England) father of:
John Meryell (b. 1495, Suffolk, England) father of:
John Merrill (b. 1545, Suffolk, England) father of:
Nathaniel Merrill (b. 1571, Suffolk, England) father of:
Nathaniel Merrill (b. 1601, Massachusetts, U.S. A.) father of:
Daniel Merrill (b. 1642, Massachusetts) father of:
Moses Merrill (b. 1683, Massachusetts) father of:
Moses Merrill (b. 1707, Massachusetts) father of:
Jacob Merrill (b. 1732, Massachusets) father of:
David Merrill (b. 1768, New Hampshire) father of:
Jacob L. Merrill (b. 1818, New Hampshire) father of:
George D. Merrill (b. 1851, New Hampshire) father of:
Gertrude M. Merrill (b. 1887, New Hampshire) mother of:
Doris M. Sanders (b. 1921, U.S.A.) mother of:
Thomas W. Markle (b. 1944, U.S.A.) father of:
Meghan Markle

As far as I know, anyone who can prove their descent from a British subject has the right to petition the English or Scottish heraldic authorities for a grant of a coat-of-arms. But as mentioned above, they have to pay a very expensive fee for it. Did the Middletons themselves actually have to pay this fee, or was it somehow waived for them ? Did they petition the English heraldic authority, or was the fact that their daughter married Prince William reason enough for an automatic grant ? Thanks
Windemere
2018-05-30 20:19:44 UTC
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Post by Miloch
Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by Miloch
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/28/meghan-markles-half-sister-slams-her-for-denying-father-coat-arms-it-s-huge-insult.html
Meghan Markle’s half-sister is calling out the royal family for not giving her
dad a coat of arms in the same way the Middleton family was.
“To exclude him of a coat of arms is really stripping him of an honor and it’s a
huge insult,” Samantha Markle Grant said, the Telegraph UK reported.
Kate Middleton’s father, Michael, was given his own coat of arms after his
daughter married Prince William in 2011 and became the Duchess of Cambridge. Not
only is she entitled to use his coat, her siblings and her brother’s children
are as well.
But the Queen deemed the process this time around too “complicated,” since to
qualify for a heraldic coat of arms, one must prove they have an ancestor who
was a subject of the Crown, according to the Daily Mail.
Instead, the new Duchess of Sussex, Markle, 36, will be given her own coat of
arms, which won’t apply to the rest of her American family, the Mail reported.
But her sister still considers this a royal snub.
go Warriors!
*
IIRC Kate's COA was actually paid for by the family. The official terminology is that it's a "grant," but to get the grant you have to pay petition the local King of Arms. In England that's £6,075. That would be $8k US. The Middletons had a mail order business which did pretty well, so they could just pay the fee. If you're Scots you can use the Lord Lyon (£1,745 or $2,300US), Meghan herself could probably personally have used the Canadian Heraldic Authority (roughly $2,400Can, which is $1,800US).
Mr. Markle very clearly has plenty of ancestors who were qualified for an English Coat of Arms because his US ancestry goes back to the Pilgrims, so if the English Kings of Arms insisted on that it would not have been a problem. He also has Scots ancestry, so even the much fussier Lord Lyon would have granted him a CoA.
My suspicion is that a) an American showbiz guy did not know he was supposed to do this, and b) given that he declared bankruptcy in '16 he probably did not have the cash sitting around.
Nick
Meghan Markle
As far as I know, anyone who can prove their descent from a British subject has the right to petition the English or Scottish heraldic authorities for a grant of a coat-of-arms. But as mentioned above, they have to pay a very expensive fee for it. Did the Middletons themselves actually have to pay this fee, or was it somehow waived for them ? Did they petition the English heraldic authority, or was the fact that their daughter married Prince William reason enough for an automatic grant ? Thanks
Here's one maternal lineage for Meghan (from Genealogics.org) which I think goes back to slave ancestors, though I'm not absolutely certain. Some of these people were of mixed racial (mulatto) descent, as are many African-Americans:

Richard Ragland (b. U.S.A.) father of:
Steve Ragland (b. U.S.A.) father of:
Jeremiah Ragland (b. 1883, Georgia) father of:
Private: father of:
Alvin A. Ragland (b. 1929, Tennessee) father of:
Doria Ragland (b. Sep 1956) mother of:
Meghan Markle

I believe that there are other maternal lineages for Meghan that also trace back to slave ancestors, but to the best of my knowledge, this one goes back the furthest.
Louis Epstein
2018-06-03 05:56:33 UTC
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Post by Miloch
Post by Miloch
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/28/meghan-markles-half-sister-slams-her-for-denying-father-coat-arms-it-s-huge-insult.html
Meghan Markle?s half-sister is calling out the royal family for not giving her
dad a coat of arms in the same way the Middleton family was.
?To exclude him of a coat of arms is really stripping him of an honor and it?s a
huge insult,? Samantha Markle Grant said, the Telegraph UK reported.
Kate Middleton?s father, Michael, was given his own coat of arms after his
daughter married Prince William in 2011 and became the Duchess of Cambridge. Not
only is she entitled to use his coat, her siblings and her brother?s children
are as well.
But the Queen deemed the process this time around too ?complicated,? since to
qualify for a heraldic coat of arms, one must prove they have an ancestor who
was a subject of the Crown, according to the Daily Mail.
Instead, the new Duchess of Sussex, Markle, 36, will be given her own coat of
arms, which won?t apply to the rest of her American family, the Mail reported.
But her sister still considers this a royal snub.
go Warriors!
*
IIRC Kate's COA was actually paid for by the family. The official terminology is that it's a "grant," but to get the grant you have to pay petition the local King of Arms. In England that's ?6,075. That would be $8k US. The Middletons had a mail order business which did pretty well, so they could just pay the fee. If you're Scots you can use the Lord Lyon (?1,745 or $2,300US), Meghan herself could probably personally have used the Canadian Heraldic Authority (roughly $2,400Can, which is $1,800US).
Mr. Markle very clearly has plenty of ancestors who were qualified for an English Coat of Arms because his US ancestry goes back to the Pilgrims, so if the English Kings of Arms insisted on that it would not have been a problem. He also has Scots ancestry, so even the much fussier Lord Lyon would have granted him a CoA.
My suspicion is that a) an American showbiz guy did not know he was supposed to do this, and b) given that he declared bankruptcy in '16 he probably did not have the cash sitting around.
Nick
Meghan Markle
As far as I know, anyone who can prove their descent from a British
subject has the right to petition the English or Scottish heraldic
authorities for a grant of a coat-of-arms. But as mentioned above, they
have to pay a very expensive fee for it.
(These fees are essentially legalized bribes...the heralds are paid
minimal salaries Parliament has refused to increase,preferring to force
them to self-fund).

Were the Merrills armigerous?
Were Gertrude or Doris considered heiresses in heraldic terms?
Post by Miloch
Did the Middletons themselves actually have to pay this fee, or was it
somehow waived for them ? Did they petition the English heraldic
authority, or was the fact that their daughter married Prince William
reason enough for an automatic grant ? Thanks
Per Gary Boyd Roberts,

George David Merrill's mother was Mary Hussey Smith,
her father was John Smith,
his mother was Martha Drake,
her father was Abraham Drake,
his mother was Jane Lunt,
her mother was Jane Browne,
her mother was Jane Skepper/Skipper,
her father was Rev. William Skepper/Skipper,died 1640s Boston,
his father was Edward Skepper,
his mother was Joan Legard,
her mother was Isabel Hildyard,
her mother was Joan/Jane "at See" or "de la See",
her mother was Elizabeth Wentworth,
her mother was Mary Clifford,
her mother was Elizabeth Percy,
her mother was Lady Elizabeth Mortimer,
her mother was Philippa of Clarence,Countess of Ulster,
her father was Lionel of Antwerp,Duke of Clarence,
his father was King Edward III of England.

Mary Clifford is a common ancestor of Meghan AND of both
of the Prince's parents.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
n***@gmail.com
2018-06-05 04:11:38 UTC
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Post by Miloch
Post by n***@gmail.com
Post by Miloch
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/28/meghan-markles-half-sister-slams-her-for-denying-father-coat-arms-it-s-huge-insult.html
Meghan Markle’s half-sister is calling out the royal family for not giving her
dad a coat of arms in the same way the Middleton family was.
“To exclude him of a coat of arms is really stripping him of an honor and it’s a
huge insult,” Samantha Markle Grant said, the Telegraph UK reported.
Kate Middleton’s father, Michael, was given his own coat of arms after his
daughter married Prince William in 2011 and became the Duchess of Cambridge. Not
only is she entitled to use his coat, her siblings and her brother’s children
are as well.
But the Queen deemed the process this time around too “complicated,” since to
qualify for a heraldic coat of arms, one must prove they have an ancestor who
was a subject of the Crown, according to the Daily Mail.
Instead, the new Duchess of Sussex, Markle, 36, will be given her own coat of
arms, which won’t apply to the rest of her American family, the Mail reported.
But her sister still considers this a royal snub.
go Warriors!
*
IIRC Kate's COA was actually paid for by the family. The official terminology is that it's a "grant," but to get the grant you have to pay petition the local King of Arms. In England that's £6,075. That would be $8k US. The Middletons had a mail order business which did pretty well, so they could just pay the fee. If you're Scots you can use the Lord Lyon (£1,745 or $2,300US), Meghan herself could probably personally have used the Canadian Heraldic Authority (roughly $2,400Can, which is $1,800US).
Mr. Markle very clearly has plenty of ancestors who were qualified for an English Coat of Arms because his US ancestry goes back to the Pilgrims, so if the English Kings of Arms insisted on that it would not have been a problem. He also has Scots ancestry, so even the much fussier Lord Lyon would have granted him a CoA.
My suspicion is that a) an American showbiz guy did not know he was supposed to do this, and b) given that he declared bankruptcy in '16 he probably did not have the cash sitting around.
Nick
Meghan Markle
As far as I know, anyone who can prove their descent from a British subject has the right to petition the
English or Scottish heraldic authorities for a grant of a coat-of-arms. But as mentioned above, they have
to pay a very expensive fee for it. Did the Middletons themselves actually have to pay this fee, or was it
somehow waived for them ? Did they petition the English heraldic authority, or was the fact that their
daughter married Prince William reason enough for an automatic grant ? Thanks
If you've got a college degree, the cash to pay, and no inconvenient rape convictions, you're in. Michael Middleton went to Oxford.

Since the heralds are not actually paid (or, to be extremely precise, they are paid precisely the salary that Parliament thought was appropriate back when the jobs were established in 1484, which works out to £49.07 for the Kings of Arms and less for everyone else), they are totally dependent on fees. It's theoretically possible the Queen covered them, but I suspect this would have been reported.

He probably just sprang for the £6,075 and figured it was cheaper then paying for an entire wedding himself.

Source for herald salary:
http://www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/about-us/heralds-officers

Nick

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