Discussion:
Carlotism
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David Amicus
2017-06-24 02:24:52 UTC
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism

I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
Louis Epstein
2017-06-24 05:19:27 UTC
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Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
If you're surfing around Wikipedia,just see
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descendants_of_John_VI_of_Portugal
(Carlota Joaquina's husband).

I would go with Pedro Carlos,your mileage may vary.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
David Amicus
2017-06-26 19:49:46 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
If you're surfing around Wikipedia,just see
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descendants_of_John_VI_of_Portugal
(Carlota Joaquina's husband).
I would go with Pedro Carlos,your mileage may vary.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedro_Carlos_of_Orl%C3%A9ans-Braganza
c***@hush.ai
2017-06-26 21:18:45 UTC
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Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
Did all Carlotists support Carlota as a substantial, permanent and hereditary Queen of Spain, regardless of the fate of her father and brethren? Or did any Carlotists support Carlota as next of kin and Regent until such time as her father or brethren (Fernando, Carlos, Francisco) might be rescued from captivity?
mdeviance
2017-06-27 03:10:08 UTC
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Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
Nobody. It is a Republic. The Carlotismo (from the Infanta Carlota Joquina of Spain, married to the Emperor of Brazil) was discarded as the Infanta was not going to install a Parliamentary Monarchy.
Louis Epstein
2017-06-28 06:31:35 UTC
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Post by mdeviance
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
Nobody. It is a Republic.
What a pity...but do notice the conditional ("Who would be").
Post by mdeviance
The Carlotismo (from the Infanta Carlota Joquina of Spain, married to
the Emperor of Brazil) was discarded as the Infanta was not going to
install a Parliamentary Monarchy.
The benefits of a Monarchy are lost if they can not correct the
Parliament.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
mdeviance
2017-06-28 22:22:16 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
Post by mdeviance
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
Nobody. It is a Republic.
What a pity...but do notice the conditional ("Who would be").
Post by mdeviance
The Carlotismo (from the Infanta Carlota Joquina of Spain, married to
the Emperor of Brazil) was discarded as the Infanta was not going to
install a Parliamentary Monarchy.
The benefits of a Monarchy are lost if they can not correct the
Parliament.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
You are telling me! I'm a monarchist. However, the country was born as a Republic. There are less than 12 members in the Argentinian Monarchic Movement, including myself. The country never accepted and will never accept a monarchy, which is a shame.

If there ever were to be a king, the proposed one at the time of Independence was an [alleged] illegitimate half-brother of the rebel Túpac Amaru II, who had been executed without leaving any offspring. It was thought more as a transitional form of government than a permanent one, as the proposed "king" (Juan Bautista Condorcanqui Monjarrás, later Juan Bautista Túpac Amaru) was already 70 years old and unmarried and without any known relative at that time.

Simply put, the idea was to transition for a short time from a colony to an overtly controlled Monarchy (with an aold puppet king as figurehead) and then to a Republic.

Given the pathetic choice, i.e. somebody about whom nobody was really sure he carried Inca blood or even if he was indeed an illegitimate half-brother of Túpac Amaru II, as at the moment of the latter's execution Juan Bautista manifested being the son of an Aymara (a Peruvian-Bolivian ethnicity), and then 20 years later retracting and saying he was indeed an illegitimate paternal half-brother of the "last" Inca (who, by the way, was not Inca at all except that he was descended in the maternal line from the true last Inca, Túpac Amaru I), the overwhelming majority of Constituents who chose the form of government, who would have never allowed a nobody, much less a Mestizo, to govern the country, decided in favor of a Republic.

There has never been a monarchical sentiment in Argentina and people are rabidly republican, therefore nobody "would" be the king of this country. Yeah...people tolerate, and sometimes welcome, populist dictators...for a time, when they get sick and tired of them, all of a sudden they turn back to a normally elected president...until they get fed up again and welcome a populist dictator. This has been going on for at least 80 years and it has taken deep roots in the common Argentinian mindset...go figure!
Louis Epstein
2017-06-29 01:26:34 UTC
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Post by mdeviance
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by mdeviance
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
Nobody. It is a Republic.
What a pity...but do notice the conditional ("Who would be").
Post by mdeviance
The Carlotismo (from the Infanta Carlota Joquina of Spain, married to
the Emperor of Brazil) was discarded as the Infanta was not going to
install a Parliamentary Monarchy.
The benefits of a Monarchy are lost if they can not correct the
Parliament.
You are telling me! I'm a monarchist. However, the country was born as
a Republic. There are less than 12 members in the Argentinian Monarchic
Movement, including myself. The country never accepted and will never
accept a monarchy, which is a shame.
If there ever were to be a king, the proposed one at the time of
Independence was an [alleged] illegitimate half-brother of the rebel
T?pac Amaru II, who had been executed without leaving any offspring. It
was thought more as a transitional form of government than a permanent
one, as the proposed "king" (Juan Bautista Condorcanqui Monjarr?s, later
Juan Bautista T?pac Amaru) was already 70 years old and unmarried and
without any known relative at that time.
Simply put, the idea was to transition for a short time from a colony
to an overtly controlled Monarchy (with an aold puppet king as
figurehead) and then to a Republic.
Monarchy in the hands of non-monarchists is sad.
Post by mdeviance
Given the pathetic choice, i.e. somebody about whom nobody was really
sure he carried Inca blood or even if he was indeed an illegitimate
half-brother of T?pac Amaru II, as at the moment of the latter's
execution Juan Bautista manifested being the son of an Aymara (a
Peruvian-Bolivian ethnicity), and then 20 years later retracting and
saying he was indeed an illegitimate paternal half-brother of the "last"
Inca (who, by the way, was not Inca at all except that he was descended
in the maternal line from the true last Inca, T?pac Amaru I), the
overwhelming majority of Constituents who chose the form of government,
who would have never allowed a nobody, much less a Mestizo, to govern
the country, decided in favor of a Republic.
There has never been a monarchical sentiment in Argentina and people
are rabidly republican,
As Smuts said,
"If a nation does not want a monarchy,change the nation's mind.
If a nation does not need a monarchy,change the nation's needs."
Post by mdeviance
therefore nobody "would" be the king of this country. Yeah...people
tolerate, and sometimes welcome, populist dictators...for a time, when
they get sick and tired of them, all of a sudden they turn back to a
normally elected president...until they get fed up again and welcome a
populist dictator. This has been going on for at least 80 years and it
has taken deep roots in the common Argentinian mindset...go figure!
Perhaps Argentina is ripe for conquest by a restored
Araucania-Patagonia...if one can just be arranged!
Post by mdeviance
Post by Louis Epstein
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
mdeviance
2017-07-01 07:21:26 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by mdeviance
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by mdeviance
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
Nobody. It is a Republic.
What a pity...but do notice the conditional ("Who would be").
Post by mdeviance
The Carlotismo (from the Infanta Carlota Joquina of Spain, married to
the Emperor of Brazil) was discarded as the Infanta was not going to
install a Parliamentary Monarchy.
The benefits of a Monarchy are lost if they can not correct the
Parliament.
You are telling me! I'm a monarchist. However, the country was born as
a Republic. There are less than 12 members in the Argentinian Monarchic
Movement, including myself. The country never accepted and will never
accept a monarchy, which is a shame.
If there ever were to be a king, the proposed one at the time of
Independence was an [alleged] illegitimate half-brother of the rebel
T?pac Amaru II, who had been executed without leaving any offspring. It
was thought more as a transitional form of government than a permanent
one, as the proposed "king" (Juan Bautista Condorcanqui Monjarr?s, later
Juan Bautista T?pac Amaru) was already 70 years old and unmarried and
without any known relative at that time.
Simply put, the idea was to transition for a short time from a colony
to an overtly controlled Monarchy (with an aold puppet king as
figurehead) and then to a Republic.
Monarchy in the hands of non-monarchists is sad.
Post by mdeviance
Given the pathetic choice, i.e. somebody about whom nobody was really
sure he carried Inca blood or even if he was indeed an illegitimate
half-brother of T?pac Amaru II, as at the moment of the latter's
execution Juan Bautista manifested being the son of an Aymara (a
Peruvian-Bolivian ethnicity), and then 20 years later retracting and
saying he was indeed an illegitimate paternal half-brother of the "last"
Inca (who, by the way, was not Inca at all except that he was descended
in the maternal line from the true last Inca, T?pac Amaru I), the
overwhelming majority of Constituents who chose the form of government,
who would have never allowed a nobody, much less a Mestizo, to govern
the country, decided in favor of a Republic.
There has never been a monarchical sentiment in Argentina and people
are rabidly republican,
As Smuts said,
"If a nation does not want a monarchy,change the nation's mind.
If a nation does not need a monarchy,change the nation's needs."
Post by mdeviance
therefore nobody "would" be the king of this country. Yeah...people
tolerate, and sometimes welcome, populist dictators...for a time, when
they get sick and tired of them, all of a sudden they turn back to a
normally elected president...until they get fed up again and welcome a
populist dictator. This has been going on for at least 80 years and it
has taken deep roots in the common Argentinian mindset...go figure!
Perhaps Argentina is ripe for conquest by a restored
Araucania-Patagonia...if one can just be arranged!
Post by mdeviance
Post by Louis Epstein
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
No way! Araucania-Patagonia was deluded dream of a megalomaniac. There are no descendants of that guy.
c***@hush.ai
2017-06-29 20:31:18 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by mdeviance
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by mdeviance
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of Argentina?
Nobody. It is a Republic.
What a pity...but do notice the conditional ("Who would be").
Post by mdeviance
The Carlotismo (from the Infanta Carlota Joquina of Spain, married to
the Emperor of Brazil) was discarded as the Infanta was not going to
install a Parliamentary Monarchy.
The benefits of a Monarchy are lost if they can not correct the
Parliament.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
You are telling me! I'm a monarchist. However, the country was born as a
Republic. There are less than 12 members in the Argentinian Monarchic
Movement, including myself. The country never accepted and will never accept a > monarchy, which is a shame.
If there ever were to be a king, the proposed one at the time of Independence > was an [alleged] illegitimate half-brother of the rebel Túpac Amaru II, who
had been executed without leaving any offspring. It was thought more as a
transitional form of government than a permanent one, as the proposed "king"
(Juan Bautista Condorcanqui Monjarrás, later Juan Bautista Túpac Amaru) was
already 70 years old and unmarried and without any known relative at that
time.
Simply put, the idea was to transition for a short time from a colony to an
overtly controlled Monarchy (with an aold puppet king as figurehead) and then > to a Republic.
Given the pathetic choice, i.e. somebody about whom nobody was really sure he > carried Inca blood or even if he was indeed an illegitimate half-brother of
Túpac Amaru II, as at the moment of the latter's execution Juan Bautista
manifested being the son of an Aymara (a Peruvian-Bolivian ethnicity), and
then 20 years later retracting and saying he was indeed an illegitimate
paternal half-brother of the "last" Inca (who, by the way, was not Inca at all > except that he was descended in the maternal line from the true last Inca,
Túpac Amaru I), the overwhelming majority of Constituents who chose the form
of government, who would have never allowed a nobody, much less a Mestizo, to > govern the country, decided in favor of a Republic.
There has never been a monarchical sentiment in Argentina
And yet Pincheiro Brethren operated in Argentina, last men to be loyal Spaniards anywhere in Spanish Main.
Besides Pincheiros, who were the most successful and popular Goth leaders in La Plata between 1810 and 1832?
mdeviance
2017-07-01 07:33:29 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by c***@hush.ai
Post by mdeviance
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by mdeviance
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of
Argentina?
Nobody. It is a Republic.
What a pity...but do notice the conditional ("Who would be").
Post by mdeviance
The Carlotismo (from the Infanta Carlota Joquina of Spain, married to
the Emperor of Brazil) was discarded as the Infanta was not going to
install a Parliamentary Monarchy.
The benefits of a Monarchy are lost if they can not correct the
Parliament.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
You are telling me! I'm a monarchist. However, the country was born as a
Republic. There are less than 12 members in the Argentinian Monarchic
Movement, including myself. The country never accepted and will never accept a > monarchy, which is a shame.
If there ever were to be a king, the proposed one at the time of Independence > was an [alleged] illegitimate half-brother of the rebel Túpac Amaru II, who
had been executed without leaving any offspring. It was thought more as a
transitional form of government than a permanent one, as the proposed "king"
(Juan Bautista Condorcanqui Monjarrás, later Juan Bautista Túpac Amaru) was
already 70 years old and unmarried and without any known relative at that
time.
Simply put, the idea was to transition for a short time from a colony to an
overtly controlled Monarchy (with an aold puppet king as figurehead) and then > to a Republic.
Given the pathetic choice, i.e. somebody about whom nobody was really sure he > carried Inca blood or even if he was indeed an illegitimate half-brother of
Túpac Amaru II, as at the moment of the latter's execution Juan Bautista
manifested being the son of an Aymara (a Peruvian-Bolivian ethnicity), and
then 20 years later retracting and saying he was indeed an illegitimate
paternal half-brother of the "last" Inca (who, by the way, was not Inca at all > except that he was descended in the maternal line from the true last Inca,
Túpac Amaru I), the overwhelming majority of Constituents who chose the form
of government, who would have never allowed a nobody, much less a Mestizo, to > govern the country, decided in favor of a Republic.
There has never been a monarchical sentiment in Argentina
And yet Pincheiro Brethren operated in Argentina, last men to be loyal Spaniards anywhere in Spanish Main.
Besides Pincheiros, who were the most successful and popular Goth leaders in La Plata between 1810 and 1832?
It's Pinheiro (not Pincheiro) Brethren. Their presence in my country was irrelevant. Besides they are not Catholic and Argentina is a staunchly Catholic country (at least nominally). You are confusing (no surprise there) Brazil with Argentina. Please! We are two different countries.
David Amicus
2017-07-01 16:27:19 UTC
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Raw Message
Post by mdeviance
Post by c***@hush.ai
Post by mdeviance
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by mdeviance
Post by David Amicus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlotism
I had not heard of this before. Who would be the current monarch of
Argentina?
Nobody. It is a Republic.
What a pity...but do notice the conditional ("Who would be").
Post by mdeviance
The Carlotismo (from the Infanta Carlota Joquina of Spain, married to
the Emperor of Brazil) was discarded as the Infanta was not going to
install a Parliamentary Monarchy.
The benefits of a Monarchy are lost if they can not correct the
Parliament.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
You are telling me! I'm a monarchist. However, the country was born as a
Republic. There are less than 12 members in the Argentinian Monarchic
Movement, including myself. The country never accepted and will never accept a > monarchy, which is a shame.
If there ever were to be a king, the proposed one at the time of Independence > was an [alleged] illegitimate half-brother of the rebel Túpac Amaru II, who
had been executed without leaving any offspring. It was thought more as a
transitional form of government than a permanent one, as the proposed "king"
(Juan Bautista Condorcanqui Monjarrás, later Juan Bautista Túpac Amaru) was
already 70 years old and unmarried and without any known relative at that
time.
Simply put, the idea was to transition for a short time from a colony to an
overtly controlled Monarchy (with an aold puppet king as figurehead) and then > to a Republic.
Given the pathetic choice, i.e. somebody about whom nobody was really sure he > carried Inca blood or even if he was indeed an illegitimate half-brother of
Túpac Amaru II, as at the moment of the latter's execution Juan Bautista
manifested being the son of an Aymara (a Peruvian-Bolivian ethnicity), and
then 20 years later retracting and saying he was indeed an illegitimate
paternal half-brother of the "last" Inca (who, by the way, was not Inca at all > except that he was descended in the maternal line from the true last Inca,
Túpac Amaru I), the overwhelming majority of Constituents who chose the form
of government, who would have never allowed a nobody, much less a Mestizo, to > govern the country, decided in favor of a Republic.
There has never been a monarchical sentiment in Argentina
And yet Pincheiro Brethren operated in Argentina, last men to be loyal Spaniards anywhere in Spanish Main.
Besides Pincheiros, who were the most successful and popular Goth leaders in La Plata between 1810 and 1832?
It's Pinheiro (not Pincheiro) Brethren. Their presence in my country was irrelevant. Besides they are not Catholic and Argentina is a staunchly Catholic country (at least nominally). You are confusing (no surprise there) Brazil with Argentina. Please! We are two different countries.
Glad to read Argentina is Catholic.

A Catholic Republic is possible. One of my heroes is Gabriel Garcia Moreno of Ecuador. His portrait hangs in my living room.
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