Discussion:
Mountbatten and a marquessate
(too old to reply)
Simon
2007-03-28 06:24:25 UTC
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Does anyone know if when Earl Mountbatten of Burma retired from the
post of Chief of the Defence Forces he was offered a promotion in the
peerage to a Marquess?

Cheifs of the Defence forces were usually offered a Barony on
retirement, and if they were already a peer usually a promotion of one
grade of the peerage.

It is surprising that Mountbatten didn't manage to get his marquessate
as I am sure he would have wanted it!
CJ Buyers
2007-03-28 08:42:01 UTC
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Post by Simon
Does anyone know if when Earl Mountbatten of Burma retired from the
post of Chief of the Defence Forces he was offered a promotion in the
peerage to a Marquess?
Cheifs of the Defence forces were usually offered a Barony on
retirement, and if they were already a peer usually a promotion of one
grade of the peerage.
It is surprising that Mountbatten didn't manage to get his marquessate
as I am sure he would have wanted it!
I'm sure he wanted one and probably asked for it, but none was
offered. He received the military OM instead.

He became something of a pest at the end of the war when offered a
Barony, telling everybody how large the land area he was responsible
for. how many people in South East Asia, and so on, forcing George VI
to near exasperation. Eventually the principal war leaders were
offered viscountcies by the new Labour government. Lord Louis was then
firmly told by the King that it would be a viscountcy or nothing.
Nothing underlined in red indelible pencil!
Simon
2007-03-29 07:06:43 UTC
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Post by CJ Buyers
Post by Simon
Does anyone know if when Earl Mountbatten of Burma retired from the
post of Chief of the Defence Forces he was offered a promotion in the
peerage to a Marquess?
Cheifs of the Defence forces were usually offered a Barony on
retirement, and if they were already a peer usually a promotion of one
grade of the peerage.
It is surprising that Mountbatten didn't manage to get his marquessate
as I am sure he would have wanted it!
I'm sure he wanted one and probably asked for it, but none was
offered. He received the military OM instead.
An OM!

A bit of a let down compared to a Marquessate!

Mountbatten would not have been happy.
CJ Buyers
2007-03-29 07:44:25 UTC
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Post by Simon
Post by CJ Buyers
Post by Simon
Does anyone know if when Earl Mountbatten of Burma retired from the
post of Chief of the Defence Forces he was offered a promotion in the
peerage to a Marquess?
Cheifs of the Defence forces were usually offered a Barony on
retirement, and if they were already a peer usually a promotion of one
grade of the peerage.
It is surprising that Mountbatten didn't manage to get his marquessate
as I am sure he would have wanted it!
I'm sure he wanted one and probably asked for it, but none was
offered. He received the military OM instead.
An OM!
A bit of a let down compared to a Marquessate!
Mountbatten would not have been happy
I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have satisfied
him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.
t***@comcast.net
2007-03-30 01:54:09 UTC
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Post by CJ Buyers
I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have satisfied
him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
Mountbatten's ambitions were only exceeded by his arrogance.

--
The Verminator
"The path to citizenship begins with LEGAL immigration"
CJ Buyers
2007-03-30 08:19:13 UTC
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Post by t***@comcast.net
Post by CJ Buyers
I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have satisfied
him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
Mountbatten's ambitions were only exceeded by his arrogance.
Sadly so. I started off as quite an admirer of the man but the more I
read the more it rubbed off. It is hard to find anyone in British
public life during the middle of the twentieth century, quite as vain
and with as hard a brass neck as Mountbatten.
Simon
2007-04-02 01:40:04 UTC
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Post by CJ Buyers
I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have
satisfied
Post by CJ Buyers
him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
Do you think that had Mountbatten been granted a Marquessate, he would
have thought himself so close to a dukedom that he would have
relentlessly pushed for one?

Did he want to be the first since Wellington to scale the whole
peerage ladder in a lifetime? Did he as another second son see himself
as a bit of a Wellington?

The position of Cheif of the Defence Forces is a most important
position that traditionally granted its holder a peerage or a
promotion in the peerage for its holder. Mountbatten could legitmately
say that he deserved the promotion.

This was also the case for his other peerages. As a victorious war
commander for which he was granted his viscounty and Viceroy of India
for which he was granted his Earldom.

He would have had to do some exemplary public service after that to
warrant a dukedom, otherwise he couldn't complain.

I think he would have been happy with a marquessate.
Candide
2007-04-02 02:15:23 UTC
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Post by CJ Buyers
Post by CJ Buyers
I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have
satisfied
Post by CJ Buyers
him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
Do you think that had Mountbatten been granted a Marquessate, he would
have thought himself so close to a dukedom that he would have
relentlessly pushed for one?
Did he want to be the first since Wellington to scale the whole
peerage ladder in a lifetime? Did he as another second son see himself
as a bit of a Wellington?
The position of Cheif of the Defence Forces is a most important
position that traditionally granted its holder a peerage or a
promotion in the peerage for its holder. Mountbatten could legitmately
say that he deserved the promotion.
This was also the case for his other peerages. As a victorious war
commander for which he was granted his viscounty and Viceroy of India
for which he was granted his Earldom.
He would have had to do some exemplary public service after that to
warrant a dukedom, otherwise he couldn't complain.
I think he would have been happy with a marquisate.
There is some opinion that Mountbatten and his family were not exactly
happy with the Windsors for having them descend into the peerage with
the great sweep of German name changes in 1917; and have ever since held
a grudge. Whatever Mountbatten's service to his country it was he who
played a hand in his nephew's meeting and subsequent marriage to the
then Princess Elizabeth. There is also a rumour, EofM allegedly quipped
the next monarch would be a "Mountbatten", referring to any issue from
his nephew's marriage to Elizabeth. It is certainly true he was behind a
push to have the RF's name changed to Mountbatten from Windsor in
keeping with a non-royal custom of wives taking their husband's name.
Louis Epstein
2007-04-02 04:28:46 UTC
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Candide <***@anywhere.com> wrote:
:
:
:
:
: "Simon" <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
: news:***@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
:>
:> On Mar 29, 2:44 am, "CJ Buyers" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
:>
:> > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have
:> satisfied
:> > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
:>
:> Do you think that had Mountbatten been granted a Marquessate, he would
:> have thought himself so close to a dukedom that he would have
:> relentlessly pushed for one?
:>
:> Did he want to be the first since Wellington to scale the whole
:> peerage ladder in a lifetime? Did he as another second son see himself
:> as a bit of a Wellington?
:>
:> The position of Cheif of the Defence Forces is a most important
:> position that traditionally granted its holder a peerage or a
:> promotion in the peerage for its holder. Mountbatten could legitmately
:> say that he deserved the promotion.
:>
:> This was also the case for his other peerages. As a victorious war
:> commander for which he was granted his viscounty and Viceroy of India
:> for which he was granted his Earldom.
:>
:> He would have had to do some exemplary public service after that to
:> warrant a dukedom, otherwise he couldn't complain.
:>
:> I think he would have been happy with a marquisate.
:
:
: There is some opinion that Mountbatten and his family were not exactly
: happy with the Windsors for having them descend into the peerage with
: the great sweep of German name changes in 1917; and have ever since held
: a grudge. Whatever Mountbatten's service to his country it was he who
: played a hand in his nephew's meeting and subsequent marriage to the
: then Princess Elizabeth. There is also a rumour, EofM allegedly quipped
: the next monarch would be a "Mountbatten", referring to any issue from
: his nephew's marriage to Elizabeth. It is certainly true he was behind a
: push to have the RF's name changed to Mountbatten from Windsor in
: keeping with a non-royal custom of wives taking their husband's name.

It is certainly the norm in Royal genealogy to name a dynasty by
its male-line ancestors...which is how Britain has gone from House
of Normandy to Plantagenet to Tudor to Stuart and so forth in one
line of descent.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Candide
2007-04-02 05:42:53 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
:>
:>
:> > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have
:> satisfied
:> > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
:>
:> Do you think that had Mountbatten been granted a Marquessate, he would
:> have thought himself so close to a dukedom that he would have
:> relentlessly pushed for one?
:>
:> Did he want to be the first since Wellington to scale the whole
:> peerage ladder in a lifetime? Did he as another second son see himself
:> as a bit of a Wellington?
:>
:> The position of Cheif of the Defence Forces is a most important
:> position that traditionally granted its holder a peerage or a
:> promotion in the peerage for its holder. Mountbatten could
legitmately
Post by Louis Epstein
:> say that he deserved the promotion.
:>
:> This was also the case for his other peerages. As a victorious war
:> commander for which he was granted his viscounty and Viceroy of India
:> for which he was granted his Earldom.
:>
:> He would have had to do some exemplary public service after that to
:> warrant a dukedom, otherwise he couldn't complain.
:>
:> I think he would have been happy with a marquisate.
: There is some opinion that Mountbatten and his family were not exactly
: happy with the Windsors for having them descend into the peerage with
: the great sweep of German name changes in 1917; and have ever since held
: a grudge. Whatever Mountbatten's service to his country it was he who
: played a hand in his nephew's meeting and subsequent marriage to the
: then Princess Elizabeth. There is also a rumour, EofM allegedly quipped
: the next monarch would be a "Mountbatten", referring to any issue from
: his nephew's marriage to Elizabeth. It is certainly true he was behind a
: push to have the RF's name changed to Mountbatten from Windsor in
: keeping with a non-royal custom of wives taking their husband's name.
It is certainly the norm in Royal genealogy to name a dynasty by
its male-line ancestors...which is how Britain has gone from House
of Normandy to Plantagenet to Tudor to Stuart and so forth in one
line of descent.
True, however there is normally an exception made when the monarch is a
queen reagent. Queen Victoria did not alter the royal house name upon
her marriage to Prince Albert, nor was anything changed for her heir.

Candide
kurrild@politik.dk
2007-04-02 08:20:01 UTC
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Post by CJ Buyers
Post by Louis Epstein
:>
:>
:> > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have
:> satisfied
:> > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted
text -
Post by Louis Epstein
:>
:> Do you think that had Mountbatten been granted a Marquessate, he
would
Post by Louis Epstein
:> have thought himself so close to a dukedom that he would have
:> relentlessly pushed for one?
:>
:> Did he want to be the first since Wellington to scale the whole
:> peerage ladder in a lifetime? Did he as another second son see
himself
Post by Louis Epstein
:> as a bit of a Wellington?
:>
:> The position of Cheif of the Defence Forces is a most important
:> position that traditionally granted its holder a peerage or a
:> promotion in the peerage for its holder. Mountbatten could
legitmately
Post by Louis Epstein
:> say that he deserved the promotion.
:>
:> This was also the case for his other peerages. As a victorious war
:> commander for which he was granted his viscounty and Viceroy of
India
Post by Louis Epstein
:> for which he was granted his Earldom.
:>
:> He would have had to do some exemplary public service after that to
:> warrant a dukedom, otherwise he couldn't complain.
:>
:> I think he would have been happy with a marquisate.
: There is some opinion that Mountbatten and his family were not
exactly
Post by Louis Epstein
: happy with the Windsors for having them descend into the peerage
with
Post by Louis Epstein
: the great sweep of German name changes in 1917; and have ever since
held
Post by Louis Epstein
: a grudge. Whatever Mountbatten's service to his country it was he
who
Post by Louis Epstein
: played a hand in his nephew's meeting and subsequent marriage to the
: then Princess Elizabeth. There is also a rumour, EofM allegedly
quipped
Post by Louis Epstein
: the next monarch would be a "Mountbatten", referring to any issue
from
Post by Louis Epstein
: his nephew's marriage to Elizabeth. It is certainly true he was
behind a
Post by Louis Epstein
: push to have the RF's name changed to Mountbatten from Windsor in
: keeping with a non-royal custom of wives taking their husband's
name.
Post by Louis Epstein
It is certainly the norm in Royal genealogy to name a dynasty by
its male-line ancestors...which is how Britain has gone from House
of Normandy to Plantagenet to Tudor to Stuart and so forth in one
line of descent.
True, however there is normally an exception made when the monarch is a
queen reagent. Queen Victoria did not alter the royal house name upon
her marriage to Prince Albert,
Well, obviously not--since she belonged to the House of Hannover and
he was not king!
Post by CJ Buyers
nor was anything changed for her heir.
Are you saying that Edward VII was referred to as belonging to the
House of Hannover? That would surprise me quite a bit.

Best wishes,

Peter Kurrild-Klitgaard
Stan Brown
2007-04-02 10:53:04 UTC
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Mon, 02 Apr 2007 05:42:53 GMT from Candide
Post by Candide
True, however there is normally an exception made when the monarch is a
queen reagent.
Is that a queen that takes part in chemical reactions with other
queens? :-)
Post by Candide
Queen Victoria did not alter the royal house name upon
her marriage to Prince Albert, nor was anything changed for her heir.
I'm pretty sure that George V thought his house name was Saxe-Coburg-
Gotha, not Hanover; and as far as I know his father Edward VII
thought so too.
--
Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com
Royalty FAQs:
1. http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/britfaq.html
2. http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/atrfaq.htm
Yvonne's HRH page:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040722191706/http://users.uniserve.com/
~canyon/prince.html
more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm
CJ Buyers
2007-04-02 10:56:09 UTC
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Post by Stan Brown
Mon, 02 Apr 2007 05:42:53 GMT from Candide
Post by Candide
True, however there is normally an exception made when the monarch is a
queen reagent.
Is that a queen that takes part in chemical reactions with other
queens? :-)
Post by Candide
Queen Victoria did not alter the royal house name upon
her marriage to Prince Albert, nor was anything changed for her heir.
I'm pretty sure that George V thought his house name was Saxe-Coburg-
Gotha, not Hanover; and as far as I know his father Edward VII
thought so too.
Was there any formal declaration made on the name of the dynasty when
Edward VII acceeded?
Candide
2007-04-02 12:09:20 UTC
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Post by Stan Brown
Mon, 02 Apr 2007 05:42:53 GMT from Candide
Post by Candide
True, however there is normally an exception made when the monarch is a
queen reagent.
Is that a queen that takes part in chemical reactions with other
queens? :-)
Damn spell check subsitution. Should have been "regnant".
Post by Stan Brown
Post by Candide
Queen Victoria did not alter the royal house name upon
her marriage to Prince Albert, nor was anything changed for her heir.
I'm pretty sure that George V thought his house name was
Saxe-Coburg-
Post by Stan Brown
Gotha, not Hanover; and as far as I know his father Edward VII
thought so too.
Had the thing only half way correct. Custom is for queens regnant not to
change their name to the husband's but the children/heirs do; hence
Edward VII being SCG.
Turenne
2007-04-02 13:20:12 UTC
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It would have been difficult to have promoted Mountbatten in the
peerage, especially as both Wavell and Alexander of Tunis remained as
earls. Both had similar career paths to Mountbatten (Field Marshals,
Viceroy of India and Gov. Gen. of Canada respectively) and both were
created viscounts (1943 and 1946) whilst in the army, and earls (1947
and 1952) as a result of their later careers as colonial
administrators. Alexander had, like Mountbatten the extra benefit of
The Garter. It must have been on The King's mind that it would have
been grossly unfair to promote Mountbatten, if Wavell and Alexander
weren't similarily rewarded.

Richard Lichten
Tom Wilding / Stephen Stillwell
2007-04-02 13:56:30 UTC
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Post by Turenne
It would have been difficult to have promoted Mountbatten in the
peerage, especially as both Wavell and Alexander of Tunis remained as
earls. Both had similar career paths to Mountbatten (Field Marshals,
Viceroy of India and Gov. Gen. of Canada respectively) and both were
created viscounts (1943 and 1946) whilst in the army, and earls (1947
and 1952) as a result of their later careers as colonial
administrators. Alexander had, like Mountbatten the extra benefit of
The Garter. It must have been on The King's mind that it would have
been grossly unfair to promote Mountbatten, if Wavell and Alexander
weren't similarily rewarded.
Richard Lichten
After 1952, it was The Queen that could have promoted him. Wavell was dead
before her accession. Alexander died something like 10 years before
Mountbatten, so there was time to do something, if it had been deemed
desirable.

-- Stephen J Stillwell jr
CJ Buyers
2007-04-02 15:02:12 UTC
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Post by Turenne
It would have been difficult to have promoted Mountbatten in the
peerage, especially as both Wavell and Alexander of Tunis remained as
earls. Both had similar career paths to Mountbatten (Field Marshals,
Viceroy of India and Gov. Gen. of Canada respectively) and both were
created viscounts (1943 and 1946) whilst in the army, and earls (1947
and 1952) as a result of their later careers as colonial
administrators. Alexander had, like Mountbatten the extra benefit of
The Garter. It must have been on The King's mind that it would have
been grossly unfair to promote Mountbatten, if Wavell and Alexander
weren't similarily rewarded.
Alexander also went on to serve as Minister for Defence 1952-1954, a
position superior to that later held by Mountbatten.

One of the problems with Mounbatten was that he had a tendency to
"ask", which never goes down well with those who dispense honours. The
viscountcy episode left a dirty taste in the mouth, as far as George
VI was concerned. HM puts great store on her late father's judgement.
Simon
2007-04-03 06:20:00 UTC
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Post by CJ Buyers
Post by Turenne
peerage, especially as both Wavell and Alexander of Tunis remained as
earls. Both had similar career paths toMountbatten(Field Marshals,
Viceroy of India and Gov. Gen. of Canada respectively) and both were
created viscounts (1943 and 1946) whilst in the army, and earls (1947
and 1952) as a result of their later careers as colonial
administrators. Alexander had, likeMountbattenthe extra benefit of
The Garter. It must have been on The King's mind that it would have
been grossly unfair to promoteMountbatten, if Wavell and Alexander
weren't similarily rewarded.
Alexander also went on to serve as Minister for Defence 1952-1954, a
position superior to that later held byMountbatten.
One of the problems with Mounbatten was that he had a tendency to
"ask", which never goes down well with those who dispense honours. The
viscountcy episode left a dirty taste in the mouth, as far as George
VI was concerned. HM puts great store on her late father's judgement.
One could say that BOTH Mountbatten and Alexander deserved a promotion
in the peerage to marquess.

Mountbatten for being CDS and Alexander for being Minister of Defence
(and previously being an Earl).

It seems a bit stingy to me that these promotions were not handed out.

In the 1950s and 60s the grade of marquess was available for grant but
was never used.
Don Aitken
2007-04-02 17:36:59 UTC
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Post by Candide
There is some opinion that Mountbatten and his family were not exactly
happy with the Windsors for having them descend into the peerage with
the great sweep of German name changes in 1917; and have ever since held
a grudge. Whatever Mountbatten's service to his country it was he who
played a hand in his nephew's meeting and subsequent marriage to the
then Princess Elizabeth. There is also a rumour, EofM allegedly quipped
the next monarch would be a "Mountbatten", referring to any issue from
his nephew's marriage to Elizabeth. It is certainly true he was behind a
push to have the RF's name changed to Mountbatten from Windsor in
keeping with a non-royal custom of wives taking their husband's name.
More than a rumour. Sir Jock Colville tells the story in his memoirs
"The Fringes of Power". Colville's view was that Mountbatten's
"tactless assertion", made within days of the King's death, and
immediately reported to Queen Mary, who apparently "spent a sleepless
night" as a result, contributed to the non-adoption of the Mountbatten
name in 1952.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.talk.royalty/msg/bc5eb6a5857fe6ba
--
Don Aitken
Mail to the From: address is not read.
To email me, substitute "clara.co.uk" for "freeuk.com"
Turenne
2007-04-02 18:15:32 UTC
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Post by Tom Wilding / Stephen Stillwell
After 1952, it was The Queen that could have promoted him. Wavell was dead
before her accession. Alexander died something like 10 years before
Mountbatten, so there was time to do something, if it had been deemed
desirable.
Be that as it may; a precedent had been set, and the monarch, whoever
it was, did not wish to break it. Many felt that Mountbatten had been
over-promoted anyway, and a promotion in the peerage would have been a
step too far.

Richard Lichten
Louis Epstein
2007-04-02 04:29:27 UTC
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Simon <***@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
:
: On Mar 29, 2:44 am, "CJ Buyers" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
:
: > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have
: satisfied
: > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
:
: Do you think that had Mountbatten been granted a Marquessate, he would
: have thought himself so close to a dukedom that he would have
: relentlessly pushed for one?
:
: Did he want to be the first since Wellington to scale the whole
: peerage ladder in a lifetime? Did he as another second son see himself
: as a bit of a Wellington?
:
: The position of Cheif of the Defence Forces is a most important
: position that traditionally granted its holder a peerage or a
: promotion in the peerage for its holder. Mountbatten could legitmately
: say that he deserved the promotion.

Surely no CDS other than Mountbatten ever took office
when already a peer?

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
CJ Buyers
2007-04-02 10:45:12 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
: > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have
: satisfied
: > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
: Do you think that had Mountbatten been granted a Marquessate, he would
: have thought himself so close to a dukedom that he would have
: relentlessly pushed for one?
: Did he want to be the first since Wellington to scale the whole
: peerage ladder in a lifetime? Did he as another second son see himself
: as a bit of a Wellington?
: The position of Cheif of the Defence Forces is a most important
: position that traditionally granted its holder a peerage or a
: promotion in the peerage for its holder. Mountbatten could legitmately
: say that he deserved the promotion.
Surely no CDS other than Mountbatten ever took office
when already a peer?
And there were none before him either; he invented the office for
himself.
Simon
2007-04-10 03:29:58 UTC
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Post by CJ Buyers
: > I fear that any actual grant of aMarquessatewould not have
: satisfied
: > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
: Do you think that had Mountbatten been granted aMarquessate, he would
: have thought himself so close to a dukedom that he would have
: relentlessly pushed for one?
: Did he want to be the first since Wellington to scale the whole
: peerage ladder in a lifetime? Did he as another second son see himself
: as a bit of a Wellington?
: The position of Cheif of the Defence Forces is a most important
: position that traditionally granted its holder a peerage or a
: promotion in the peerage for its holder. Mountbatten could legitmately
: say that he deserved the promotion.
Surely no CDS other than Mountbatten ever took office
when already a peer?
And there were none before him either; he invented the office for
himself.
One other person held the office before Mountbatten did:

Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir William Dickson
1 January 1956-12 July 1959

So I doubt that he invented the office for himself.
CJ Buyers
2007-04-10 06:50:21 UTC
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Post by Simon
Post by CJ Buyers
: > I fear that any actual grant of aMarquessatewould not have
: satisfied
: > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
: Do you think that had Mountbatten been granted aMarquessate, he would
: have thought himself so close to a dukedom that he would have
: relentlessly pushed for one?
: Did he want to be the first since Wellington to scale the whole
: peerage ladder in a lifetime? Did he as another second son see himself
: as a bit of a Wellington?
: The position of Cheif of the Defence Forces is a most important
: position that traditionally granted its holder a peerage or a
: promotion in the peerage for its holder. Mountbatten could legitmately
: say that he deserved the promotion.
Surely no CDS other than Mountbatten ever took office
when already a peer?
And there were none before him either; he invented the office for
himself.
Marshal of the Royal Air Force Sir William Dickson
1 January 1956-12 July 1959
So I doubt that he invented the office for himself.- Hide quoted text -
The office wasn't even created until 1958.

Dickson was Chairman of the Chiefs of Staff Committe from 1956, was
given the additional titles of Chief of Staff to the Minister of
Defence from 1957 and Chief of the Defence Staff from 1958. However,
he was simply a stop-gap as the new organisation wasn't yet
established. He had no staff and the other defence chiefs all still
enjoyed equal "five star" rank alongside him.

Mountbatten was formally offered the appointment of Chief of the
Defence staff according to the new organisation, with a full staff and
ranking above all the other defence chiefs on 22nd May 1958. There was
some problem over who would succeed Mountbatten in the post of First
Sea Lord and a certain degree of Whitehall paper warfare erupted over
whether it would be Guy Grantham or Mountbatten's friend, Charles
Lambe. Eventually they decided in favour of Lambe, but not until as
late as 22nd December 1958.
CJ Buyers
2007-04-02 07:11:52 UTC
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Post by CJ Buyers
Post by CJ Buyers
I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have
satisfied
Post by CJ Buyers
him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
He would have had to do some exemplary public service after that to
warrant a dukedom, otherwise he couldn't complain.
I suggest a little reading up on what Mountbatten was actually like.
Louis Epstein
2007-04-02 04:30:03 UTC
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CJ Buyers <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
: On Mar 30, 2:54 am, "***@comcast.net"
: <***@comcast.net> wrote:
:> On Mar 29, 2:44 am, "CJ Buyers" <***@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
:>
:>
:>
:> > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have satisfied
:> > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
:>
:> Mountbatten's ambitions were only exceeded by his arrogance.
:>
: Sadly so. I started off as quite an admirer of the man but the more I
: read the more it rubbed off. It is hard to find anyone in British
: public life during the middle of the twentieth century, quite as vain
: and with as hard a brass neck as Mountbatten.
:

I recall him being quoted as saying,
"I am the most conceited person I have ever met."

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Stelios Rigopoulos
2007-04-10 22:08:18 UTC
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Post by Louis Epstein
:>
:>
:>
:> > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have satisfied
:> > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
:>
:> Mountbatten's ambitions were only exceeded by his arrogance.
:>
: Sadly so. I started off as quite an admirer of the man but the more I
: read the more it rubbed off. It is hard to find anyone in British
: public life during the middle of the twentieth century, quite as vain
: and with as hard a brass neck as Mountbatten.
I recall him being quoted as saying,
"I am the most conceited person I have ever met."
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
Stelios Rigopoulos
2007-04-10 22:32:38 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I suspect the root of Mountbatten's "problem" was that he was born in
the last year of the reign of the dying Queen Victoria, his maternal
grandmother, and until his 17th year was known as and called "His
Serene Highness Prince Louis of Battenberg", related to the Tsar and
the Kaisar and the King of Great Britain and Ireland. "Downgraded" to
be the younger son of a Marquess, he had through his career in the
Armed Forces and public service to prove his worth, while his
instincts were positively NOT egalitarian. Viceroys of India had
indeed been elevated to the rank of Marquess, who were honestly lesser
lights, though perhaps no less ambitious than Mountbatten. Ultimately
his personal ambitions for preferment to something higher and better,
could only be satisfied by the marriage of his nephew (whom he seems
to have regarded as the son he never had) renouncing unilaterally his
dynastic title of Prince of Greece and Denmark to adopt his own
surname, which in the normal course of events would have become the
new name of the British Royal Family. His ambition was commensurate
with, and certainly motivated by, his sense of deprivation, however
justified or otherwise such a sense might have been.
Post by Louis Epstein
:>
:>
:>
:> > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have satisfied
:> > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
:>
:> Mountbatten's ambitions were only exceeded by his arrogance.
:>
: Sadly so. I started off as quite an admirer of the man but the more I
: read the more it rubbed off. It is hard to find anyone in British
: public life during the middle of the twentieth century, quite as vain
: and with as hard a brass neck as Mountbatten.
I recall him being quoted as saying,
"I am the most conceited person I have ever met."
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
CJ Buyers
2007-04-11 07:07:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Stelios Rigopoulos
I suspect the root of Mountbatten's "problem" was that he was born in
the last year of the reign of the dying Queen Victoria, his maternal
grandmother, and until his 17th year was known as and called "His
Serene Highness Prince Louis of Battenberg", related to the Tsar and
the Kaisar and the King of Great Britain and Ireland. "Downgraded" to
be the younger son of a Marquess, he had through his career in the
Armed Forces and public service to prove his worth, while his
instincts were positively NOT egalitarian. Viceroys of India had
indeed been elevated to the rank of Marquess, who were honestly lesser
lights, though perhaps no less ambitious than Mountbatten. Ultimately
his personal ambitions for preferment to something higher and better,
could only be satisfied by the marriage of his nephew (whom he seems
to have regarded as the son he never had) renouncing unilaterally his
dynastic title of Prince of Greece and Denmark to adopt his own
surname, which in the normal course of events would have become the
new name of the British Royal Family. His ambition was commensurate
with, and certainly motivated by, his sense of deprivation, however
justified or otherwise such a sense might have been.
Post by Louis Epstein
:>
:>
:>
:> > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have satisfied
:> > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
:>
:> Mountbatten's ambitions were only exceeded by his arrogance.
:>
: Sadly so. I started off as quite an admirer of the man but the more I
: read the more it rubbed off. It is hard to find anyone in British
: public life during the middle of the twentieth century, quite as vain
: and with as hard a brass neck as Mountbatten.
Mountbatten wasn't alone in losing his foreign princely titles,
something that his own father didn't seem to mind losing very much.

If there was a psychological 'trauma' it was more likely to have been
the ignominious removal of his father as First Sea Lord, and the anti-
German bullying his young son received as a consequence, while at the
RNC at the time.

Despite his clamouring for titles, honours and rank, he was
surprisigly egalitarian. One cannot hold that against him. Perhaps
this came largely from his wife, described by some as a Communist
fellow traveller. His secretary, Peter Murphy, was a member of the
party and Paul Robeson a close friend. You can imagine how all this
went down in certain cirles in the America of that day and some of the
contemporarry reports on the Mountbattens make very amusing reading.
Candide
2007-04-11 08:06:35 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CJ Buyers
Post by Stelios Rigopoulos
I suspect the root of Mountbatten's "problem" was that he was born in
the last year of the reign of the dying Queen Victoria, his maternal
grandmother, and until his 17th year was known as and called "His
Serene Highness Prince Louis of Battenberg", related to the Tsar and
the Kaisar and the King of Great Britain and Ireland. "Downgraded" to
be the younger son of a Marquess, he had through his career in the
Armed Forces and public service to prove his worth, while his
instincts were positively NOT egalitarian. Viceroys of India had
indeed been elevated to the rank of Marquess, who were honestly lesser
lights, though perhaps no less ambitious than Mountbatten.
Ultimately
Post by CJ Buyers
Post by Stelios Rigopoulos
his personal ambitions for preferment to something higher and better,
could only be satisfied by the marriage of his nephew (whom he seems
to have regarded as the son he never had) renouncing unilaterally his
dynastic title of Prince of Greece and Denmark to adopt his own
surname, which in the normal course of events would have become the
new name of the British Royal Family. His ambition was commensurate
with, and certainly motivated by, his sense of deprivation, however
justified or otherwise such a sense might have been.
Post by Louis Epstein
:>
:>
:>
:> > I fear that any actual grant of a Marquessate would not have satisfied
:> > him and only encouraged yet higher ambitions.- Hide quoted text -
:>
:> Mountbatten's ambitions were only exceeded by his arrogance.
:>
: Sadly so. I started off as quite an admirer of the man but the more I
: read the more it rubbed off. It is hard to find anyone in British
: public life during the middle of the twentieth century, quite as vain
: and with as hard a brass neck as Mountbatten.
Mountbatten wasn't alone in losing his foreign princely titles,
something that his own father didn't seem to mind losing very much.
If there was a psychological 'trauma' it was more likely to have been
the ignominious removal of his father as First Sea Lord, and the anti-
German bullying his young son received as a consequence, while at the
RNC at the time.
Despite his clamouring for titles, honours and rank, he was
surprisigly egalitarian. One cannot hold that against him. Perhaps
this came largely from his wife, described by some as a Communist
fellow traveller. His secretary, Peter Murphy, was a member of the
party and Paul Robeson a close friend. You can imagine how all this
went down in certain cirles in the America of that day and some of the
contemporarry reports on the Mountbattens make very amusing reading.
Well there is all that, plus those "Mountbottom" remarks behind the
man's back probably didn't help much either.

Candide
Simon
2007-04-24 05:30:33 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
His secretary, Peter Murphy, was a member of the
party and Paul Robeson a close friend. You can imagine how all this
went down in certain cirles in the America of that day and some of the
contemporarry reports on the Mountbattens make very amusing reading.

Well there is all that, plus those "Mountbottom" remarks behind the
Post by Candide
man's back probably didn't help much either.
Candide
Were Peter Murphy or Paul Robeson gay?

Were there rumours of a relationship between them and Mountbatten?
Candide
2007-04-24 08:18:13 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by CJ Buyers
His secretary, Peter Murphy, was a member of the
party and Paul Robeson a close friend. You can imagine how all this
went down in certain cirles in the America of that day and some of the
contemporarry reports on the Mountbattens make very amusing reading.
Well there is all that, plus those "Mountbottom" remarks behind the
Post by Candide
man's back probably didn't help much either.
Candide
Were Peter Murphy or Paul Robeson gay?
Were there rumours of a relationship between them and Mountbatten?
Nickname came during Mountbatten's Navy days as a young man, though it
did stick and perhaps so did the alleged behaviour.

As for an affair with Paul Robeson, Lady Mountbatten took those honours,
according to popular gossip. LM also had an affair with Indian prime
minister Jawaharlal Nehru among others, again according to rumours.
Guru
2017-02-09 23:33:12 UTC
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On reading Lady Pamela Hicks autobiography a few interesting things come up.

one of them is that she claims that the 1st Marquess was originally offered a dukedom but declined it due to lack of wealth to sustain a dukedom in England in favour of a marqessate.
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