Discussion:
Italian nobility - source material
(too old to reply)
Daniel Gubler-Jones
2005-06-09 00:18:27 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Hello all, I'm looking for source material on the two following
families:
Cattaneo della Volta, Marchesi di Montescaglioso (I think Patrizii
Genovesi)
Bonfiglio, Principi di Condro
Firrao, Principi di Luzzi e Sant'Agata
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have already consulted the
wonderful website www.sardimpex.com for most of the Italian noble
families, and would like to compliment the compilers thereof for their
great work.
Dan
2005-06-09 14:04:43 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
I would recommend the "Libro d'Oro di Nobiliario" (spelling? -
Translates to the Golden Book of the Nobility) which is a series of
books published periodically since the 1800's which have worked similar
to the way Debrett's Peerage has worked for the British nobility. The
primary difference is that not every family is covered in every
edition. But if you get one of the latest editions, it will tell you
when the last time the family you are looking for was covered.

Hope this helps!
Dan
c***@virgin.net
2005-06-09 15:36:24 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dan
I would recommend the "Libro d'Oro di Nobiliario" (spelling? -
Translates to the Golden Book of the Nobility) which is a series of
books published periodically since the 1800's which have worked similar
to the way Debrett's Peerage has worked for the British nobility. The
primary difference is that not every family is covered in every
edition. But if you get one of the latest editions, it will tell you
when the last time the family you are looking for was covered.
Hope this helps!
Dan
Indeed, I would also recommend the "Libro d'Oro della Nobilita'
Italiana". It is a little superior to Debrett in that it gives full
dates of birth, marriage or death, in most cases.

I know that in at least one example from the online source that you
mention, the information is not entirely accurate. They have taken
details about the Bodoglio family from my Royal Ark website, but have
garbled the date information on the marriage between the Duke and
Princess Phuong Mai of Vietnam.
e***@yahoo.it
2012-10-02 10:08:44 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Dan
I would recommend the "Libro d'Oro di Nobiliario" (spelling? -
Translates to the Golden Book of the Nobility) which is a series of
books published periodically since the 1800's which have worked similar
to the way Debrett's Peerage has worked for the British nobility. The
primary difference is that not every family is covered in every
edition. But if you get one of the latest editions, it will tell you
when the last time the family you are looking for was covered.
Hope this helps!
Dan
I am one of the descendants of this noble genoese family. You can apply directly to the Cattaneo della Volta in Genoa, where all the ancient papers are collected in the archives at the Parrocchia di San Torpete . There you can tracj down our complete history. Or else you can contact me , I have some photocopies of our family history , on my email address ***@yahoo.it.
My name is Alba della Volta and live in bergamo - Italy.
Hoping to have been of help
Kind regards
a***@bsn1.net
2005-06-11 02:04:23 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
The names you list appear to mix family names and titles, in some cases
unrelated to one another. The title Marchese di Montescaglioso belongs
to the "Brancaccio" family; Principe di Condro' belongs to the
"di Napoli Rampolla" family; Principe di S. Agata and Principe di
Luzzi belong to the "Costa Sanseverino" family. The following give
all the respective family names and titles with supporting references.

Brancaccio (Neapolitan family); Principe, Principe di Triggiano,
Principe di Roviano, Duca, Duca di Lustra, Marchese di Montescaglioso,
Patrizio Napoletano, Don (Lib. d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXI A-L,
1995-1999, pp. 256-258)

Cattaneo della Volta (Genoese family); Marchese di Belforte, Marchese,
Patrizio Genovese (Lib. d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXV A-L, 2000-2004,
pp. 393-395)

Costa Sanseverino (Neapolitan family); Principe di Bisignano, Principe
di S. Giorgio, Principe di Torrenova, Principe di S. Agata, Principe di
Luzzi, Principe di Pietralcina, Duca di Erchie, Duca di Ielsi, Marchese
di Casalbore, Conte di Chiaromonte, Nobile dei Marchesi, Predicato di
Arielli, Don (Lib. d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXV A-L, 2000-2004, pp.
510-511)

Napoli Rampolla (di) (Sicilian family); Duca di Campobello, Principe di
Resuttato, Principe di Bonfornello, Principe di Condro', Principe di
Monteleone, Barone di Perrana, Signore di Rachilebri, Signore di
Campobello, Signore di Alessandria, Signore di Condro', Signore di
Santa Ninfa, Don e Donna (Lib. d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXV M-Z,
2000-2004, pp. 184-185)

Bonfiglio (Sicilian family, belonging to a collateral line of the
Principe di Condro'); Barone di San Leone, Nobile, Don e Donna (Lib.
d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXV M-Z, 2000-2004, pp. 184-185, includes
details of its recognition after the formation of the Italian Republic)

Bonfiglio (Sicilian family); Barone di Carmito (Elenco Ufficiale della
Nobilta' Italiana, 1933-34)

Firrao (Calabrian family); Patrizio di Cosenza (Lib. d'Oro della Nob.
It. vol. XIX, 1981-1985, p. 706)

References

Libro d'Oro della Nobilta' Italiana, vols. XIX, XXI, XXV
Elenco Ufficiale della Nobilta' Italiana, 1933-34

Note that the website you link to lists only a very small number of
Italian noble families.

Hope that all these details help you.
c***@webtv.net
2005-06-11 06:41:36 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
As long as we're talking about the italian nobility, who ranks above and
below a "patrician".
And who ranks as a "nobile donna"?
a***@bsn1.net
2005-06-12 23:53:11 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Ranking of titles - principe, duca, marchese, conte, visconte,
barone, signore, patrizio, cavaliere ereditario & nobile (Ref.
Enciclopedia Italiana, vol. -N- p. 870)

Nobildonna - title attributed to a woman born into an aristocratic
family, but without her having a specific title of nobility [such as
the feminine version of one of those preceding]. (Ref. Il Grande
Dizionario Garzanti della Lingua Italiana, Edizione 2005, p. 1569)
Daniel Gubler-Jones
2005-06-12 23:51:40 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
This may have been true in the 20th century, but the titles could have
been passed into the current families through daughters of the older
families, as I have seen happen numerous times in the Ruffo and
Caracciolo families that I have thus far researched. This might also
explain why there are no online genealogies of these families; perhaps
some have become extinct in the male line, with their titles having
been passed through the daughters to other families.
Post by a***@bsn1.net
The names you list appear to mix family names and titles, in some cases
unrelated to one another. The title Marchese di Montescaglioso belongs
to the "Brancaccio" family; Principe di Condro' belongs to the
"di Napoli Rampolla" family; Principe di S. Agata and Principe di
Luzzi belong to the "Costa Sanseverino" family. The following give
all the respective family names and titles with supporting references.
Brancaccio (Neapolitan family); Principe, Principe di Triggiano,
Principe di Roviano, Duca, Duca di Lustra, Marchese di Montescaglioso,
Patrizio Napoletano, Don (Lib. d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXI A-L,
1995-1999, pp. 256-258)
Cattaneo della Volta (Genoese family); Marchese di Belforte, Marchese,
Patrizio Genovese (Lib. d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXV A-L, 2000-2004,
pp. 393-395)
Costa Sanseverino (Neapolitan family); Principe di Bisignano, Principe
di S. Giorgio, Principe di Torrenova, Principe di S. Agata, Principe di
Luzzi, Principe di Pietralcina, Duca di Erchie, Duca di Ielsi, Marchese
di Casalbore, Conte di Chiaromonte, Nobile dei Marchesi, Predicato di
Arielli, Don (Lib. d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXV A-L, 2000-2004, pp.
510-511)
Napoli Rampolla (di) (Sicilian family); Duca di Campobello, Principe di
Resuttato, Principe di Bonfornello, Principe di Condro', Principe di
Monteleone, Barone di Perrana, Signore di Rachilebri, Signore di
Campobello, Signore di Alessandria, Signore di Condro', Signore di
Santa Ninfa, Don e Donna (Lib. d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXV M-Z,
2000-2004, pp. 184-185)
Bonfiglio (Sicilian family, belonging to a collateral line of the
Principe di Condro'); Barone di San Leone, Nobile, Don e Donna (Lib.
d'Oro della Nob. It. vol. XXV M-Z, 2000-2004, pp. 184-185, includes
details of its recognition after the formation of the Italian Republic)
Bonfiglio (Sicilian family); Barone di Carmito (Elenco Ufficiale della
Nobilta' Italiana, 1933-34)
Firrao (Calabrian family); Patrizio di Cosenza (Lib. d'Oro della Nob.
It. vol. XIX, 1981-1985, p. 706)
References
Libro d'Oro della Nobilta' Italiana, vols. XIX, XXI, XXV
Elenco Ufficiale della Nobilta' Italiana, 1933-34
Note that the website you link to lists only a very small number of
Italian noble families.
Hope that all these details help you.
a***@bsn1.net
2005-06-11 04:54:20 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Post by Daniel Gubler-Jones
Hello all, I'm looking for source material on the two following
Cattaneo della Volta, Marchesi di Montescaglioso (I think Patrizii
Genovesi)
Bonfiglio, Principi di Condro
Firrao, Principi di Luzzi e Sant'Agata
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have already consulted the
wonderful website www.sardimpex.com for most of the Italian noble
families, and would like to compliment the compilers thereof for their
great work.
a***@bsn1.net
2005-06-11 05:00:31 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
If you can find the set of volumes "Enciclopedia Storico-Nobiliare
Italiana" by Vittorio Spreti. Arnaldo Forni Editori, 1928-36, look
up the following:

Bonfiglio. Vol. II, p. 122
Brancaccio. Vol. II, pp. 173-174
Cattaneo e Cattaneo Adorno. Vol. II, pp. 383-386
Costa Sanseverino. Vol. II, p. 560
Firrao. Vol. III, p. 193 (passed by marriage to the Costa Sanseverino
family the titles of Principe di Lizzi and Principe di S. Agata)
Napoli [Rampella] (di). Vol. IV, pp. 765-771
m***@sonic.net
2018-07-18 17:26:07 UTC
Permalink
Raw Message
Is it possible to find a copy of Il Libro d’Oro in a library, or online? Is there a translation of it in English? My Italian is rudimentary.
Loading...