Discussion:
My claim to the throne of England
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d***@gmail.com
2017-11-25 03:28:18 UTC
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I've never posted on a newsgroup before, but a friend told me about
this one recently and I wanted to post my claim to the English throne.
I swear that I am not crazy, and I do not go around calling myself the
Queen or carrying a scepter. I'm not sure if anybody here is
interested in succession or just Prince William's latest favorite
songs, nothing personal William, I like you, but I figured I would
post this. My friend told me that many of you seemed educated about
succession laws and so forth, so I thought maybe a couple of you would
want to hear my family's story.
My full name is Kristine Anne Isabel Byron, I go by Krista. I'm 18
years old, soon to be 19, and live in Massachusetts. I am also very
interested in politics. I'm an only child, so my uncle would be the
next in line. My claim to the throne goes back to the original Yorkist
claim in the War of the Roses, which of course descends from the
eldest legitimate son or if there is no son to the eldest daughter of
each sovereign. I hope some of you are at least familiar with the
basis for this claim. The Yorkist claimant was Richard the Duke of
York who was born in 1411. King Edward IV the son of Richard married
illegally according to a Parliament ruling, since he was already under
contract to be married before, so his children were barred from
succession. His younger brother was the Duke of Clarence who committed
treason, was attained, and so his descendants were barred from
succession. Richard's eldest daughter Princess Anne is whom my claim
comes through.
The current monarch, Queen Elizabeth II, is a descendant of that
marriage, which was ruled illegal, through which her claim comes.
Also, I have the senior claim to the barony of Ros, which was
improperly given to the descendants of a younger co-heiress. My claim
Richard the Duke of York – Princess Anne Plantagenet – Anne St.
Ledger – Thomas Manners the 1st Earl of Rutland – Henry Manners the
2nd Earl of Rutland – John Manners the 3rd Earl of Rutland – Lady
Bridget Manners – William Tyrwhitt – Francis Tyrwhitt – Katherine
Tyrwhitt – Thomas Windsor Hunloke, 3rd Baronet Hunloke – Henry
Hunloke, 4th Baronet Hunloke – Marina Jane Hunloke whose younger
sister married Lord Sidney and was the mother-in-law of one of King
William IV's illegitimate daughters – William Henry Broomhead –
Benjamin Michael Broomhead the first in the US – William Frederick
Banks-Broomhead who was raised by his step-father William Banks after
his father died when he was 2 – William George Banks-Broomhead – Elmer
George Banks who dropped Broomhead from his surname – Isabel Letitia
Anne Banks – Nicholas Alexander Byron III – Kristine Anne Isabel
Byron.
My claim didn't always fall from eldest son or daughter straight
through, but currently I am the senior representative of Princess Anne
Plantagenet. Marina Jane Hunloke for example had brothers, but none of
them have descendants.
My father's family, Byron, sometimes spelled Byram, descends from
our first American ancestor, Dr. Nicholas Byram I the Councilor of War
for the Plymouth Colony who lived in the 1600s. Nicholas was the son
of nobleman William Byrom. His family had recently moved to Ireland
from England and his father allowed him to go visit his relatives in
England. The guardian who accompanied him apparently stole Nicholas'
belongings and sent him on a ship to the West Indies where he had to
work for his passage and eventually made it to Massachusetts.
My family has lived in Massachusetts since then. Our ancestors later
moved to Boston, but we have always lived somewhere in Massachusetts
since Nicholas. My late father gave to me a genealogical list of the
family. It traces Nicholas back to the Lords Byrom de Glazebrook and
further to Ralph de Burun, who came over with William the Conqueror
during the Norman Invasion, and an uncertain connection to the
possible early Viking forefathers of the Byrons. Also, I don't know if
this would be of any interest, but my great grandmother Charlotte Anne
Law had a very interesting lineage. She was a descendant of kings
James II, Charles II, and George I through illegitimate lines. Her
descent from Charles and George were through the wife of her maternal
great grandfather Confederate General Robert E. Lee. Her descent from
James II was through the Earls of Waldegrave. I would be happy to
share more information about any of my lines for those interested.
My mother was born Eliza Frances Crane the daughter and only child
of the late Winthrop Murray Crane III, a co-owner and Director of
Crane Industries and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, who
passed away in 1997. He was the grandson of Winthrop Murray Crane I, a
co-owner of Crane Industries and a former Governor of Massachusetts
and US Senator from Massachusetts. My grandmother, who everybody says
I look like, was born Sarah Frances Rockefeller, the daughter of John
Sterling Rockefeller and Paula Kristine Watjen.
If anybody has any questions or wants more information, just ask and
I'll try to answer them the best I can. I'm usually quite busy, but
I'll check back every few days to see if anybody has responded, so
please be patient. In case anybody doesn't know about Richard the Duke
of York's exact claim it was as follows: King Edward Plantagenet III -
Lionel Plantagenet the Duke of Clarence - Philippa Plantagenet the
Countess of Ulster - Roger Mortimer the Earl of March and Ulster -
Lady Anne Mortimer - Richard the Duke of York. I want to thank those
who took the time to read this over.
I know that it is very odd to post on a topic that has been in abeyance for almost 15 years. (My choice of the use of the word "abeyance" will become clear in a moment). I was today reviewing the 1806 decision on the de Ros barony and bumped into this thread by accident. I didn't read all of the pages so my point may have already been addressed and is so, I apologize. I'm only adding in this note for other researchers.

Ms. Byron (who might well be married by now and have a different name) is quite correct on the disputed de Ros barony claim. The successful claim by Charlotte FitzGerald was fairly suspect. The House of Lords decision admits that Mrs. FitzGerald was only one of the three co-heirs to the barony and only a twenty-five percent interest whereas Ms. Byron's ancestor, Sir Henry Hunloke, Bt., had a fifty percent interest and was the heir general of the elder of the two sisters from whom the claims were derived. No clear explanation for the award was given by the House of Lords except an inference that Charlotte came from (or at least had married into) a better family as her husband was the brother of the Duke of Leinster (whereas the Hunlokes made their money from coal mines, ironworks and similar "ungentlemanly" pursuits). If anyone else ever reads this thread again (maybe in another 15 years), the Lord's decision is in the Lords' Journals, Vol. 45, Page 616; May 9, 1806.

Also, for any future readers, I am really curious now about the daughters of the 4th Baronet and the source of the information on them. Oh well, a decade and a half too late.
Louis Epstein
2017-11-25 05:25:55 UTC
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Permalink
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Post by d***@gmail.com
I've never posted on a newsgroup before, but a friend told me about
this one recently and I wanted to post my claim to the English throne.
I swear that I am not crazy, and I do not go around calling myself the
Queen or carrying a scepter. I'm not sure if anybody here is
interested in succession or just Prince William's latest favorite
songs, nothing personal William, I like you, but I figured I would
post this. My friend told me that many of you seemed educated about
succession laws and so forth, so I thought maybe a couple of you would
want to hear my family's story.
My full name is Kristine Anne Isabel Byron, I go by Krista. I'm 18
years old, soon to be 19, and live in Massachusetts. I am also very
interested in politics. I'm an only child, so my uncle would be the
next in line. My claim to the throne goes back to the original Yorkist
claim in the War of the Roses, which of course descends from the
eldest legitimate son or if there is no son to the eldest daughter of
each sovereign. I hope some of you are at least familiar with the
basis for this claim. The Yorkist claimant was Richard the Duke of
York who was born in 1411. King Edward IV the son of Richard married
illegally according to a Parliament ruling, since he was already under
contract to be married before, so his children were barred from
succession. His younger brother was the Duke of Clarence who committed
treason, was attained, and so his descendants were barred from
succession. Richard's eldest daughter Princess Anne is whom my claim
comes through.
The current monarch, Queen Elizabeth II, is a descendant of that
marriage, which was ruled illegal, through which her claim comes.
Also, I have the senior claim to the barony of Ros, which was
improperly given to the descendants of a younger co-heiress. My claim
Richard the Duke of York ? Princess Anne Plantagenet ? Anne St.
Ledger ? Thomas Manners the 1st Earl of Rutland ? Henry Manners the
2nd Earl of Rutland ? John Manners the 3rd Earl of Rutland ? Lady
Bridget Manners ? William Tyrwhitt ? Francis Tyrwhitt ? Katherine
Tyrwhitt ? Thomas Windsor Hunloke, 3rd Baronet Hunloke ? Henry
Hunloke, 4th Baronet Hunloke ? Marina Jane Hunloke whose younger
sister married Lord Sidney and was the mother-in-law of one of King
William IV's illegitimate daughters ? William Henry Broomhead ?
Benjamin Michael Broomhead the first in the US ? William Frederick
Banks-Broomhead who was raised by his step-father William Banks after
his father died when he was 2 ? William George Banks-Broomhead ? Elmer
George Banks who dropped Broomhead from his surname ? Isabel Letitia
Anne Banks ? Nicholas Alexander Byron III ? Kristine Anne Isabel
Byron.
My claim didn't always fall from eldest son or daughter straight
through, but currently I am the senior representative of Princess Anne
Plantagenet. Marina Jane Hunloke for example had brothers, but none of
them have descendants.
My father's family, Byron, sometimes spelled Byram, descends from
our first American ancestor, Dr. Nicholas Byram I the Councilor of War
for the Plymouth Colony who lived in the 1600s. Nicholas was the son
of nobleman William Byrom. His family had recently moved to Ireland
from England and his father allowed him to go visit his relatives in
England. The guardian who accompanied him apparently stole Nicholas'
belongings and sent him on a ship to the West Indies where he had to
work for his passage and eventually made it to Massachusetts.
My family has lived in Massachusetts since then. Our ancestors later
moved to Boston, but we have always lived somewhere in Massachusetts
since Nicholas. My late father gave to me a genealogical list of the
family. It traces Nicholas back to the Lords Byrom de Glazebrook and
further to Ralph de Burun, who came over with William the Conqueror
during the Norman Invasion, and an uncertain connection to the
possible early Viking forefathers of the Byrons. Also, I don't know if
this would be of any interest, but my great grandmother Charlotte Anne
Law had a very interesting lineage. She was a descendant of kings
James II, Charles II, and George I through illegitimate lines. Her
descent from Charles and George were through the wife of her maternal
great grandfather Confederate General Robert E. Lee. Her descent from
James II was through the Earls of Waldegrave. I would be happy to
share more information about any of my lines for those interested.
My mother was born Eliza Frances Crane the daughter and only child
of the late Winthrop Murray Crane III, a co-owner and Director of
Crane Industries and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, who
passed away in 1997. He was the grandson of Winthrop Murray Crane I, a
co-owner of Crane Industries and a former Governor of Massachusetts
and US Senator from Massachusetts. My grandmother, who everybody says
I look like, was born Sarah Frances Rockefeller, the daughter of John
Sterling Rockefeller and Paula Kristine Watjen.
If anybody has any questions or wants more information, just ask and
I'll try to answer them the best I can. I'm usually quite busy, but
I'll check back every few days to see if anybody has responded, so
please be patient. In case anybody doesn't know about Richard the Duke
of York's exact claim it was as follows: King Edward Plantagenet III -
Lionel Plantagenet the Duke of Clarence - Philippa Plantagenet the
Countess of Ulster - Roger Mortimer the Earl of March and Ulster -
Lady Anne Mortimer - Richard the Duke of York. I want to thank those
who took the time to read this over.
I know that it is very odd to post on a topic that has been in abeyance
for almost 15 years. (My choice of the use of the word "abeyance" will
become clear in a moment). I was today reviewing the 1806 decision on
the de Ros barony and bumped into this thread by accident. I didn't
read all of the pages so my point may have already been addressed and
is so, I apologize. I'm only adding in this note for other researchers.
Ms. Byron (who might well be married by now and have a different name)
is quite correct on the disputed de Ros barony claim. The successful
claim by Charlotte FitzGerald was fairly suspect. The House of Lords
decision admits that Mrs. FitzGerald was only one of the three co-heirs
to the barony and only a twenty-five percent interest whereas Ms.
Byron's ancestor, Sir Henry Hunloke, Bt., had a fifty percent interest
and was the heir general of the elder of the two sisters from whom the
claims were derived. No clear explanation for the award was given by the
House of Lords except an inference that Charlotte came from (or at least
had married into) a better family as her husband was the brother of the
Duke of Leinster (whereas the Hunlokes made their money from coal mines,
ironworks and similar "ungentlemanly" pursuits). If anyone else ever
reads this thread again (maybe in another 15 years), the Lord's decision
is in the Lords' Journals, Vol. 45, Page 616; May 9, 1806.
Also, for any future readers, I am really curious now about the
daughters of the 4th Baronet and the source of the information on them.
Oh well, a decade and a half too late.
Miss Byron has not been heard from here in some time.
If you looked at the old thread,you might notice some of her
claims being questioned by the late William Addams Reitweisner,
an active genealogical scholar who succumbed to cancer some years
afterward...not conclusively,but I do note that there seem some
commonalities between Krista Byron and another vanished maker of
claims,known as Kevin Randolph Hearst,who apparently lost a court
case to the authentic George Randolph Hearst III whose nephew he
claimed to be,who charged him with being an impostor.
Both Byron and Hearst claimed relationship to James Stillman
Rockefeller (1902-2004).

It would be interesting to see what information could be offered
in favor of the Byron descent claim,if it is genuine.

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
d***@gmail.com
2017-11-26 12:52:22 UTC
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Permalink
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Post by Louis Epstein
Post by d***@gmail.com
I've never posted on a newsgroup before, but a friend told me about
this one recently and I wanted to post my claim to the English throne.
I swear that I am not crazy, and I do not go around calling myself the
Queen or carrying a scepter. I'm not sure if anybody here is
interested in succession or just Prince William's latest favorite
songs, nothing personal William, I like you, but I figured I would
post this. My friend told me that many of you seemed educated about
succession laws and so forth, so I thought maybe a couple of you would
want to hear my family's story.
My full name is Kristine Anne Isabel Byron, I go by Krista. I'm 18
years old, soon to be 19, and live in Massachusetts. I am also very
interested in politics. I'm an only child, so my uncle would be the
next in line. My claim to the throne goes back to the original Yorkist
claim in the War of the Roses, which of course descends from the
eldest legitimate son or if there is no son to the eldest daughter of
each sovereign. I hope some of you are at least familiar with the
basis for this claim. The Yorkist claimant was Richard the Duke of
York who was born in 1411. King Edward IV the son of Richard married
illegally according to a Parliament ruling, since he was already under
contract to be married before, so his children were barred from
succession. His younger brother was the Duke of Clarence who committed
treason, was attained, and so his descendants were barred from
succession. Richard's eldest daughter Princess Anne is whom my claim
comes through.
The current monarch, Queen Elizabeth II, is a descendant of that
marriage, which was ruled illegal, through which her claim comes.
Also, I have the senior claim to the barony of Ros, which was
improperly given to the descendants of a younger co-heiress. My claim
Richard the Duke of York ? Princess Anne Plantagenet ? Anne St.
Ledger ? Thomas Manners the 1st Earl of Rutland ? Henry Manners the
2nd Earl of Rutland ? John Manners the 3rd Earl of Rutland ? Lady
Bridget Manners ? William Tyrwhitt ? Francis Tyrwhitt ? Katherine
Tyrwhitt ? Thomas Windsor Hunloke, 3rd Baronet Hunloke ? Henry
Hunloke, 4th Baronet Hunloke ? Marina Jane Hunloke whose younger
sister married Lord Sidney and was the mother-in-law of one of King
William IV's illegitimate daughters ? William Henry Broomhead ?
Benjamin Michael Broomhead the first in the US ? William Frederick
Banks-Broomhead who was raised by his step-father William Banks after
his father died when he was 2 ? William George Banks-Broomhead ? Elmer
George Banks who dropped Broomhead from his surname ? Isabel Letitia
Anne Banks ? Nicholas Alexander Byron III ? Kristine Anne Isabel
Byron.
My claim didn't always fall from eldest son or daughter straight
through, but currently I am the senior representative of Princess Anne
Plantagenet. Marina Jane Hunloke for example had brothers, but none of
them have descendants.
My father's family, Byron, sometimes spelled Byram, descends from
our first American ancestor, Dr. Nicholas Byram I the Councilor of War
for the Plymouth Colony who lived in the 1600s. Nicholas was the son
of nobleman William Byrom. His family had recently moved to Ireland
from England and his father allowed him to go visit his relatives in
England. The guardian who accompanied him apparently stole Nicholas'
belongings and sent him on a ship to the West Indies where he had to
work for his passage and eventually made it to Massachusetts.
My family has lived in Massachusetts since then. Our ancestors later
moved to Boston, but we have always lived somewhere in Massachusetts
since Nicholas. My late father gave to me a genealogical list of the
family. It traces Nicholas back to the Lords Byrom de Glazebrook and
further to Ralph de Burun, who came over with William the Conqueror
during the Norman Invasion, and an uncertain connection to the
possible early Viking forefathers of the Byrons. Also, I don't know if
this would be of any interest, but my great grandmother Charlotte Anne
Law had a very interesting lineage. She was a descendant of kings
James II, Charles II, and George I through illegitimate lines. Her
descent from Charles and George were through the wife of her maternal
great grandfather Confederate General Robert E. Lee. Her descent from
James II was through the Earls of Waldegrave. I would be happy to
share more information about any of my lines for those interested.
My mother was born Eliza Frances Crane the daughter and only child
of the late Winthrop Murray Crane III, a co-owner and Director of
Crane Industries and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, who
passed away in 1997. He was the grandson of Winthrop Murray Crane I, a
co-owner of Crane Industries and a former Governor of Massachusetts
and US Senator from Massachusetts. My grandmother, who everybody says
I look like, was born Sarah Frances Rockefeller, the daughter of John
Sterling Rockefeller and Paula Kristine Watjen.
If anybody has any questions or wants more information, just ask and
I'll try to answer them the best I can. I'm usually quite busy, but
I'll check back every few days to see if anybody has responded, so
please be patient. In case anybody doesn't know about Richard the Duke
of York's exact claim it was as follows: King Edward Plantagenet III -
Lionel Plantagenet the Duke of Clarence - Philippa Plantagenet the
Countess of Ulster - Roger Mortimer the Earl of March and Ulster -
Lady Anne Mortimer - Richard the Duke of York. I want to thank those
who took the time to read this over.
I know that it is very odd to post on a topic that has been in abeyance
for almost 15 years. (My choice of the use of the word "abeyance" will
become clear in a moment). I was today reviewing the 1806 decision on
the de Ros barony and bumped into this thread by accident. I didn't
read all of the pages so my point may have already been addressed and
is so, I apologize. I'm only adding in this note for other researchers.
Ms. Byron (who might well be married by now and have a different name)
is quite correct on the disputed de Ros barony claim. The successful
claim by Charlotte FitzGerald was fairly suspect. The House of Lords
decision admits that Mrs. FitzGerald was only one of the three co-heirs
to the barony and only a twenty-five percent interest whereas Ms.
Byron's ancestor, Sir Henry Hunloke, Bt., had a fifty percent interest
and was the heir general of the elder of the two sisters from whom the
claims were derived. No clear explanation for the award was given by the
House of Lords except an inference that Charlotte came from (or at least
had married into) a better family as her husband was the brother of the
Duke of Leinster (whereas the Hunlokes made their money from coal mines,
ironworks and similar "ungentlemanly" pursuits). If anyone else ever
reads this thread again (maybe in another 15 years), the Lord's decision
is in the Lords' Journals, Vol. 45, Page 616; May 9, 1806.
Also, for any future readers, I am really curious now about the
daughters of the 4th Baronet and the source of the information on them.
Oh well, a decade and a half too late.
Miss Byron has not been heard from here in some time.
If you looked at the old thread,you might notice some of her
claims being questioned by the late William Addams Reitweisner,
an active genealogical scholar who succumbed to cancer some years
afterward...not conclusively,but I do note that there seem some
commonalities between Krista Byron and another vanished maker of
claims,known as Kevin Randolph Hearst,who apparently lost a court
case to the authentic George Randolph Hearst III whose nephew he
claimed to be,who charged him with being an impostor.
Both Byron and Hearst claimed relationship to James Stillman
Rockefeller (1902-2004).
It would be interesting to see what information could be offered
in favor of the Byron descent claim,if it is genuine.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
I greatly appreciate your response. I had started reading the thread but like many discussions of such subjects, it degenerated quickly. I particularly am grateful for your reference to the late Mr. Reitweisner and I will will look for his post. Lastly, from my brief reading of other people's posts, it is both interesting and depressing how many people either accept or reject theories without analysis. It was refreshing to receive your dispassionate analysis.
Windemere
2017-11-27 00:17:04 UTC
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Permalink
Raw Message
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by d***@gmail.com
I've never posted on a newsgroup before, but a friend told me about
this one recently and I wanted to post my claim to the English throne.
I swear that I am not crazy, and I do not go around calling myself the
Queen or carrying a scepter. I'm not sure if anybody here is
interested in succession or just Prince William's latest favorite
songs, nothing personal William, I like you, but I figured I would
post this. My friend told me that many of you seemed educated about
succession laws and so forth, so I thought maybe a couple of you would
want to hear my family's story.
My full name is Kristine Anne Isabel Byron, I go by Krista. I'm 18
years old, soon to be 19, and live in Massachusetts. I am also very
interested in politics. I'm an only child, so my uncle would be the
next in line. My claim to the throne goes back to the original Yorkist
claim in the War of the Roses, which of course descends from the
eldest legitimate son or if there is no son to the eldest daughter of
each sovereign. I hope some of you are at least familiar with the
basis for this claim. The Yorkist claimant was Richard the Duke of
York who was born in 1411. King Edward IV the son of Richard married
illegally according to a Parliament ruling, since he was already under
contract to be married before, so his children were barred from
succession. His younger brother was the Duke of Clarence who committed
treason, was attained, and so his descendants were barred from
succession. Richard's eldest daughter Princess Anne is whom my claim
comes through.
The current monarch, Queen Elizabeth II, is a descendant of that
marriage, which was ruled illegal, through which her claim comes.
Also, I have the senior claim to the barony of Ros, which was
improperly given to the descendants of a younger co-heiress. My claim
Richard the Duke of York ? Princess Anne Plantagenet ? Anne St.
Ledger ? Thomas Manners the 1st Earl of Rutland ? Henry Manners the
2nd Earl of Rutland ? John Manners the 3rd Earl of Rutland ? Lady
Bridget Manners ? William Tyrwhitt ? Francis Tyrwhitt ? Katherine
Tyrwhitt ? Thomas Windsor Hunloke, 3rd Baronet Hunloke ? Henry
Hunloke, 4th Baronet Hunloke ? Marina Jane Hunloke whose younger
sister married Lord Sidney and was the mother-in-law of one of King
William IV's illegitimate daughters ? William Henry Broomhead ?
Benjamin Michael Broomhead the first in the US ? William Frederick
Banks-Broomhead who was raised by his step-father William Banks after
his father died when he was 2 ? William George Banks-Broomhead ? Elmer
George Banks who dropped Broomhead from his surname ? Isabel Letitia
Anne Banks ? Nicholas Alexander Byron III ? Kristine Anne Isabel
Byron.
My claim didn't always fall from eldest son or daughter straight
through, but currently I am the senior representative of Princess Anne
Plantagenet. Marina Jane Hunloke for example had brothers, but none of
them have descendants.
My father's family, Byron, sometimes spelled Byram, descends from
our first American ancestor, Dr. Nicholas Byram I the Councilor of War
for the Plymouth Colony who lived in the 1600s. Nicholas was the son
of nobleman William Byrom. His family had recently moved to Ireland
from England and his father allowed him to go visit his relatives in
England. The guardian who accompanied him apparently stole Nicholas'
belongings and sent him on a ship to the West Indies where he had to
work for his passage and eventually made it to Massachusetts.
My family has lived in Massachusetts since then. Our ancestors later
moved to Boston, but we have always lived somewhere in Massachusetts
since Nicholas. My late father gave to me a genealogical list of the
family. It traces Nicholas back to the Lords Byrom de Glazebrook and
further to Ralph de Burun, who came over with William the Conqueror
during the Norman Invasion, and an uncertain connection to the
possible early Viking forefathers of the Byrons. Also, I don't know if
this would be of any interest, but my great grandmother Charlotte Anne
Law had a very interesting lineage. She was a descendant of kings
James II, Charles II, and George I through illegitimate lines. Her
descent from Charles and George were through the wife of her maternal
great grandfather Confederate General Robert E. Lee. Her descent from
James II was through the Earls of Waldegrave. I would be happy to
share more information about any of my lines for those interested.
My mother was born Eliza Frances Crane the daughter and only child
of the late Winthrop Murray Crane III, a co-owner and Director of
Crane Industries and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, who
passed away in 1997. He was the grandson of Winthrop Murray Crane I, a
co-owner of Crane Industries and a former Governor of Massachusetts
and US Senator from Massachusetts. My grandmother, who everybody says
I look like, was born Sarah Frances Rockefeller, the daughter of John
Sterling Rockefeller and Paula Kristine Watjen.
If anybody has any questions or wants more information, just ask and
I'll try to answer them the best I can. I'm usually quite busy, but
I'll check back every few days to see if anybody has responded, so
please be patient. In case anybody doesn't know about Richard the Duke
of York's exact claim it was as follows: King Edward Plantagenet III -
Lionel Plantagenet the Duke of Clarence - Philippa Plantagenet the
Countess of Ulster - Roger Mortimer the Earl of March and Ulster -
Lady Anne Mortimer - Richard the Duke of York. I want to thank those
who took the time to read this over.
I know that it is very odd to post on a topic that has been in abeyance
for almost 15 years. (My choice of the use of the word "abeyance" will
become clear in a moment). I was today reviewing the 1806 decision on
the de Ros barony and bumped into this thread by accident. I didn't
read all of the pages so my point may have already been addressed and
is so, I apologize. I'm only adding in this note for other researchers.
Ms. Byron (who might well be married by now and have a different name)
is quite correct on the disputed de Ros barony claim. The successful
claim by Charlotte FitzGerald was fairly suspect. The House of Lords
decision admits that Mrs. FitzGerald was only one of the three co-heirs
to the barony and only a twenty-five percent interest whereas Ms.
Byron's ancestor, Sir Henry Hunloke, Bt., had a fifty percent interest
and was the heir general of the elder of the two sisters from whom the
claims were derived. No clear explanation for the award was given by the
House of Lords except an inference that Charlotte came from (or at least
had married into) a better family as her husband was the brother of the
Duke of Leinster (whereas the Hunlokes made their money from coal mines,
ironworks and similar "ungentlemanly" pursuits). If anyone else ever
reads this thread again (maybe in another 15 years), the Lord's decision
is in the Lords' Journals, Vol. 45, Page 616; May 9, 1806.
Also, for any future readers, I am really curious now about the
daughters of the 4th Baronet and the source of the information on them.
Oh well, a decade and a half too late.
Miss Byron has not been heard from here in some time.
If you looked at the old thread,you might notice some of her
claims being questioned by the late William Addams Reitweisner,
an active genealogical scholar who succumbed to cancer some years
afterward...not conclusively,but I do note that there seem some
commonalities between Krista Byron and another vanished maker of
claims,known as Kevin Randolph Hearst,who apparently lost a court
case to the authentic George Randolph Hearst III whose nephew he
claimed to be,who charged him with being an impostor.
Both Byron and Hearst claimed relationship to James Stillman
Rockefeller (1902-2004).
It would be interesting to see what information could be offered
in favor of the Byron descent claim,if it is genuine.
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
I greatly appreciate your response. I had started reading the thread but like many discussions of such subjects, it degenerated quickly. I particularly am grateful for your reference to the late Mr. Reitweisner and I will will look for his post. Lastly, from my brief reading of other people's posts, it is both interesting and depressing how many people either accept or reject theories without analysis. It was refreshing to receive your dispassionate analysis.
It's an interesting question. The late Mr. Reitwiesner used the Genealogics.org genealogy website, which listed Marina Jane Hunloke (daughter of Henry Hunloke 4th Baronet and Margaret (Coke)) as having been born Feb.16, 1777 and dying June 18, 1799. No marriage or children are listed.

However, the Ancestry.com website lists Marina Jane Hunloke (daughter of Henry Hunloke and Margaret (Coke) as being born in 1777 and dying in 1815. It mentions her marriage to a George Broomhead, and with 5 children born to them.
Louis Epstein
2017-11-27 19:24:59 UTC
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Post by Windemere
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Louis Epstein
Post by d***@gmail.com
I've never posted on a newsgroup before, but a friend told me about
this one recently and I wanted to post my claim to the English throne.
I swear that I am not crazy, and I do not go around calling myself the
Queen or carrying a scepter. I'm not sure if anybody here is
interested in succession or just Prince William's latest favorite
songs, nothing personal William, I like you, but I figured I would
post this. My friend told me that many of you seemed educated about
succession laws and so forth, so I thought maybe a couple of you would
want to hear my family's story.
My full name is Kristine Anne Isabel Byron, I go by Krista. I'm 18
years old, soon to be 19, and live in Massachusetts. I am also very
interested in politics. I'm an only child, so my uncle would be the
next in line. My claim to the throne goes back to the original Yorkist
claim in the War of the Roses, which of course descends from the
eldest legitimate son or if there is no son to the eldest daughter of
each sovereign. I hope some of you are at least familiar with the
basis for this claim. The Yorkist claimant was Richard the Duke of
York who was born in 1411. King Edward IV the son of Richard married
illegally according to a Parliament ruling, since he was already under
contract to be married before, so his children were barred from
succession. His younger brother was the Duke of Clarence who committed
treason, was attained, and so his descendants were barred from
succession. Richard's eldest daughter Princess Anne is whom my claim
comes through.
The current monarch, Queen Elizabeth II, is a descendant of that
marriage, which was ruled illegal, through which her claim comes.
Also, I have the senior claim to the barony of Ros, which was
improperly given to the descendants of a younger co-heiress. My claim
Richard the Duke of York ? Princess Anne Plantagenet ? Anne St.
Ledger ? Thomas Manners the 1st Earl of Rutland ? Henry Manners the
2nd Earl of Rutland ? John Manners the 3rd Earl of Rutland ? Lady
Bridget Manners ? William Tyrwhitt ? Francis Tyrwhitt ? Katherine
Tyrwhitt ? Thomas Windsor Hunloke, 3rd Baronet Hunloke ? Henry
Hunloke, 4th Baronet Hunloke ? Marina Jane Hunloke whose younger
sister married Lord Sidney and was the mother-in-law of one of King
William IV's illegitimate daughters ? William Henry Broomhead ?
Benjamin Michael Broomhead the first in the US ? William Frederick
Banks-Broomhead who was raised by his step-father William Banks after
his father died when he was 2 ? William George Banks-Broomhead ? Elmer
George Banks who dropped Broomhead from his surname ? Isabel Letitia
Anne Banks ? Nicholas Alexander Byron III ? Kristine Anne Isabel
Byron.
My claim didn't always fall from eldest son or daughter straight
through, but currently I am the senior representative of Princess Anne
Plantagenet. Marina Jane Hunloke for example had brothers, but none of
them have descendants.
My father's family, Byron, sometimes spelled Byram, descends from
our first American ancestor, Dr. Nicholas Byram I the Councilor of War
for the Plymouth Colony who lived in the 1600s. Nicholas was the son
of nobleman William Byrom. His family had recently moved to Ireland
from England and his father allowed him to go visit his relatives in
England. The guardian who accompanied him apparently stole Nicholas'
belongings and sent him on a ship to the West Indies where he had to
work for his passage and eventually made it to Massachusetts.
My family has lived in Massachusetts since then. Our ancestors later
moved to Boston, but we have always lived somewhere in Massachusetts
since Nicholas. My late father gave to me a genealogical list of the
family. It traces Nicholas back to the Lords Byrom de Glazebrook and
further to Ralph de Burun, who came over with William the Conqueror
during the Norman Invasion, and an uncertain connection to the
possible early Viking forefathers of the Byrons. Also, I don't know if
this would be of any interest, but my great grandmother Charlotte Anne
Law had a very interesting lineage. She was a descendant of kings
James II, Charles II, and George I through illegitimate lines. Her
descent from Charles and George were through the wife of her maternal
great grandfather Confederate General Robert E. Lee. Her descent from
James II was through the Earls of Waldegrave. I would be happy to
share more information about any of my lines for those interested.
My mother was born Eliza Frances Crane the daughter and only child
of the late Winthrop Murray Crane III, a co-owner and Director of
Crane Industries and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, who
passed away in 1997. He was the grandson of Winthrop Murray Crane I, a
co-owner of Crane Industries and a former Governor of Massachusetts
and US Senator from Massachusetts. My grandmother, who everybody says
I look like, was born Sarah Frances Rockefeller, the daughter of John
Sterling Rockefeller and Paula Kristine Watjen.
If anybody has any questions or wants more information, just ask and
I'll try to answer them the best I can. I'm usually quite busy, but
I'll check back every few days to see if anybody has responded, so
please be patient. In case anybody doesn't know about Richard the Duke
of York's exact claim it was as follows: King Edward Plantagenet III -
Lionel Plantagenet the Duke of Clarence - Philippa Plantagenet the
Countess of Ulster - Roger Mortimer the Earl of March and Ulster -
Lady Anne Mortimer - Richard the Duke of York. I want to thank those
who took the time to read this over.
I know that it is very odd to post on a topic that has been in abeyance
for almost 15 years. (My choice of the use of the word "abeyance" will
become clear in a moment). I was today reviewing the 1806 decision on
the de Ros barony and bumped into this thread by accident. I didn't
read all of the pages so my point may have already been addressed and
is so, I apologize. I'm only adding in this note for other researchers.
Ms. Byron (who might well be married by now and have a different name)
is quite correct on the disputed de Ros barony claim. The successful
claim by Charlotte FitzGerald was fairly suspect. The House of Lords
decision admits that Mrs. FitzGerald was only one of the three co-heirs
to the barony and only a twenty-five percent interest whereas Ms.
Byron's ancestor, Sir Henry Hunloke, Bt., had a fifty percent interest
and was the heir general of the elder of the two sisters from whom the
claims were derived. No clear explanation for the award was given by the
House of Lords except an inference that Charlotte came from (or at least
had married into) a better family as her husband was the brother of the
Duke of Leinster (whereas the Hunlokes made their money from coal mines,
ironworks and similar "ungentlemanly" pursuits). If anyone else ever
reads this thread again (maybe in another 15 years), the Lord's decision
is in the Lords' Journals, Vol. 45, Page 616; May 9, 1806.
Also, for any future readers, I am really curious now about the
daughters of the 4th Baronet and the source of the information on them.
Oh well, a decade and a half too late.
Miss Byron has not been heard from here in some time.
If you looked at the old thread,you might notice some of her
claims being questioned by the late William Addams Reitweisner,
an active genealogical scholar who succumbed to cancer some years
afterward...not conclusively,but I do note that there seem some
commonalities between Krista Byron and another vanished maker of
claims,known as Kevin Randolph Hearst,who apparently lost a court
case to the authentic George Randolph Hearst III whose nephew he
claimed to be,who charged him with being an impostor.
Both Byron and Hearst claimed relationship to James Stillman
Rockefeller (1902-2004).
It would be interesting to see what information could be offered
in favor of the Byron descent claim,if it is genuine.
I greatly appreciate your response. I had started reading the thread
but like many discussions of such subjects, it degenerated quickly. I
particularly am grateful for your reference to the late Mr. Reitweisner
and I will will look for his post. Lastly, from my brief reading of
other people's posts, it is both interesting and depressing how many
people either accept or reject theories without analysis. It was
refreshing to receive your dispassionate analysis.
It's an interesting question. The late Mr. Reitwiesner used the
Genealogics.org genealogy website, which listed Marina Jane Hunloke
(daughter of Henry Hunloke 4th Baronet and Margaret (Coke)) as having
been born Feb.16, 1777 and dying June 18, 1799. No marriage or children
are listed.
However, the Ancestry.com website lists Marina Jane Hunloke (daughter
of Henry Hunloke and Margaret (Coke) as being born in 1777 and dying in
1815. It mentions her marriage to a George Broomhead, and with 5
children born to them.
Of the two,Genealogics.org is I believe compiled by experts and
ancestry.com accepts submissions from the general public.
So unless actual documents can be produced for the Broomhead marriage
it's possible that claimants are creating their own sources.

I note that "Kevin Randolph Hearst" created a Hearst family genealogy
site that showed GRH III as childless when in fact he at least has a
daughter.

Paula Watjen Rockefeller died in 2000 leaving two daughters Christina
DuBois and Paula Greene,also shown as John Sterling Rockefeller's only
children on a site that says he had children when others list none.
An additional daughter Sarah briefly married to Winthrop Crane III
(I haven't seen record of Crane having a daughter Eliza) also needs
to be verified for Byron's family tree to prove out,though this is
not her royal descent line.The death notice said that Paula left
one great-grandchild,and if either Christina or Paula had a grandchild
by 2000 that would be a statement that Kristine Byron did not exist.
Post by Windemere
Post by d***@gmail.com
Post by Louis Epstein
-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.
w***@gmail.com
2017-11-28 22:21:12 UTC
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We ought to be arguing over whether the genealogical
claim is valid. WAR says that it is not...
That was my question.
There is no Sarah Frances Rockefeller as a daughter of John Sterling Rockefeller

So whatever else you may say or not say, your claim stops right at that door.
Louis Epstein
2017-11-28 22:50:17 UTC
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Post by w***@gmail.com
We ought to be arguing over whether the genealogical
claim is valid. WAR says that it is not...
That was my question.
There is no Sarah Frances Rockefeller as a daughter of John Sterling Rockefeller
So whatever else you may say or not say, your claim stops right at that door.
Thank you.

If everybody says "Krista" looks like her grandmother,
and her grandmother doesn't exist...

-=-=-
The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again,
at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed.

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